Arizona Gandy Dancers

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Bill, with mixed emotions, sadly, I must advise they do not. No working breach mechanism on any of the armarmemt.

However, it could added. A bit of machine work and some interior naval architecture and I am assured you could go duck hunting to your hearts content. There certainly is enough room below decks to add all sorts of miniature machinery - even steam power plants if one were so inclined.

We do know all the gun tubes and deck hardware were hand made. turned down on a lathe etc, by the original builder. There is no vendor working in this scale, so the builder would have had to do every piece from scratch.

Seriously, there is a group of maritime battle enthusiasts who routinely go around sinking each other’s fleets. These boats maybe you wouldn’t want to do that with, as the yard time for repair would be extensive.

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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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Bill Shields
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Bill Shields »

I think the shoot / sink group is German...and they were (are) using paintball gun mechanisms..

Lots of fun...all the more reason to shoot straight.
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Greg_Lewis »

Well, the Bismarck was scuttled in 1941 after only nine months of service, after being beaten up rather severely by 16 British torpedo bombers, two battleships and two heavy cruisers. So to be prototypical..... :roll:
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NP317
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by NP317 »

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Bill Shields
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Bill Shields »

Yeah...that's them...

Now all they need are rail runs to lob in big shells to destroy the naval depot's🤪
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Kimball McGinley
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Kimball McGinley »

Back to welded rails... Rails that cannot expand lengthwise just grow in overall section - wider and taller. Real railroads get away with welding long strings because the track is well-ballasted to prevent sideways movement. The rails themselves resist lifting out of flat, because of their I-beam shape and their weight. Heavy ties help too. But they do want to jump sideways into what is known as a "Sun Kink" if the edge ballast is scant. In extreme cold, you also get "pull-aparts."
Kimball McGinley
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Kimball McGinley »

So, what does it mean when your post totally kills a thread? Is that a good or bad thing? I figured my post on 2-22-22 would generate some good discussion, but -- nothing...?
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Bill Shields
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Bill Shields »

or (sadly) everyone is distracted by what is going on in the Ukraine....
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Andrew Pugh
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Andrew Pugh »

The large scale warships are an amazing deal in my opinion…I spent a good couple hours reading more on RC naval warfare. I had no idea it extended to such relatively large scales. I had only seen the tiny ones that zip around like speedboats.

On the welded rail…I wonder how well will the prototype practice scale? Also, have you worked out what the actual cost is to perform each weld?

-AP
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Bill Shields
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Bill Shields »

Jam the ends together

Build a clay dam around it

Pack full of thermite. Light with mag ribbon or oxy torch.

Stand back.. wait to cool

Grind off excess.

Or am I missing something...giggle :mrgreen:
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Glenn Brooks
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Our current plan is to bolt 1 joint and then weld two- maybe three sections - for a total of 60’ or 80’. Couple of our 7.5” track crew have made up a rail car that mounts a gen set and a small Lincoln 100amp wire wire feed mig set to weld joints. We’ve duplicated that portable set up on a golf kart and can do 12# rail joints well enough. Welding cost is nominal for stick welders. Less than $1/lb for 6020 or 6011 rod. Two welded joints are 20x cheaper than buying two extra sets of fishplates and track bolts. So every welded joint saves us $19…

We think one of the key elements for controlling welded rail is oversized ties and substantial spikes/lags and rail clips. Hence we decided on 3/8” x 2 1/2” lag screws, with heavy gauge 2” fender washers. The washers in this case act as rail clips and are 1/8” thick steel. They are used in trailer construction to screw decking onto the frame, so are more substantial than typical DIY hardware stuff.

Also, standard gauge concrete railroad ties weigh in at something over 1300# each with a very heavy gauge rail screw and clip system. The extra bulk provides the foundation to tie the rail down to control expansion.

We can’t afford commercial grade rail clips ($1.47 each x 4 per tie ) so going with what we believe will be adequate for our 3” and 4” scale, low speed moderate weight trains consists.

The key here is that we feel 5” scale, 15” gauge railroading is unrealistic for most hobbyists. Hence we purposely are designing for the smaller scale equipment - with the occasional 5” scale visitor…,
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Andrew Pugh
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Re: Arizona Gandy Dancers

Post by Andrew Pugh »

I see I botched my meaning with poor wording Bill :mrgreen:

I was thinking about restraining the forces due to the restrained expansion of the rails…how well does this practice scale from full size.


Glenn, clearly the material cost for welded joints is far cheaper, and obviously labor is free since this is a hobby :mrgreen: . If you weren’t going welded, what would have been the cost difference of the other materials…possibly lighter ties, smaller/different hardware?

-AP
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