Advise, to build or buy?

[John.can]

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place or as I call it, two hard places. I've been looking and digging studying and thinking and I can't seem to decide. I'd like to build an Allen ten wheeler or mogul but I'd also wouldn't mind buying one as long as it was in running order and the price affordable. I'm currently active duty in the navy and belong to Chula Vista Live Steamers as an active member. If I choose to build or buy, the members there all have backgrounds in Allen engines which is great. The hard part is deciding build or buy and if buy, where will I find one that doesn't need heavy maintenance or restoration that was properly taken care of. DSL is a great central source but I've heard most don't necessarily even post online which makes tracking harder. Maybe you other members on this already helpful forum can lay some advice and guidance down.

[FLSTEAM]

John

Building and engine takes a lot of time. That said, given your active duty status could interrupt the time required to build an engine. There is also the required commitment to see the project to the end.
A lot of first time builders don't take that into consideration and end up selling their locomotive as "A project". My first engine (15" ga. Mogul) took 8 years. I was still working then. The Shay took 2 years. I am retired.

I enjoy the building process and there is nothing like when you run your engine on air for the first time.
If on the other hand you want to run something now I would suggest buying.

John B.

[jcbrock]

John,

I think the other John B hit it on the nose - if you enjoy building, then build, but if you are itching to have something to run, then buy. I think if you are on active duty, it's going to be tough to get one done and running in short order. What I would add is try to buy local, and have the Chula Vista guys with Allen knowledge look it over for you. It's easy to machine a few new pins and bushings, but if you have to pull the boiler or do significant machining, I'd move on to the next one.

If you are going to build, the new Allen 0-4-0 looks like a great first project.

John B 2

[Steggy]

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place...I'd like to build an Allen ten wheeler or mogul but I'd also wouldn't mind buying one as long as it was in running order and the price affordable. I'm currently active duty in the navy and belong to Chula Vista Live Steamers as an active member...Maybe you other members on this already helpful forum can lay some advice and guidance down.

If being active duty in the Navy is anything now like it was when I was in (Vietnam era), I'd say you'd be better off buying something that is in working order, or worst case, needs some minor repair to get it into first class running condition. As John Brock suggested, you wouldn't want a locomotive that needs a boiler-off overhaul, but one that has some minor mechanical needs should be fine.

Building from scratch involves a major time commitment, which I suspect would be difficult for you right now. It's hard to stay enthusiastic about a scratch-build when you have to stretch it out over many years of intermittent work (I know all-too-well what that's about). If you can acquire a running locomotive then you will immediately have the opportunity to gain experience in maintaining and repairing it, which will in turn prepare you for that day when you can commit a lot of time to a scratch-build project.

Incidentally, thank you for your service to the USA.

[John.can]

Hello other John's, my middle initial is B so there are a lot around I see. Just from seeing all three responses from both John's and the big dumb dinosaur, all arrows point toward a minor fixer upper and my club president also said don't get one that requires the boiler off. I agree and understand that waiting to build is better and to instead buy, maintain, and fix what minor things need to be fixed. I will say navy doesn't teach mechanics much about being mechanics anymore, but I will say that I'm always interested in learning how to take apart and put back together steamers, diesels, and any other equipment and how to fix it. The next questions are when will one appear, how operational, and if it will fit in budget. Thank you for the help and I hopefully more on the forum will see and continue to respond and maybe connect me further.

[jtdute]

Don't let being Active Duty deter you. I spent 24 years Active Duty Navy. I was a live steamer before I enlisted and carried on through out and transferring to the fleet reserve about a year ago. I worked on a 1" scale mogul in the barracks, Had a 9" Southbend in my first apartment. Transferred cross country with my 2 1/2" scale Shay and riding cars as well as a partial shop (Twice). My final move my shop out weighed my household good (approx 10,500 lbs of shop).
With all that being said I was able to build a 1-1/2" scale Pacific, an 2-1/2" scale RGS-20 and rebuild my 2-1/2" scale Shay. Where ever you are stationed there is going to be live steamers close by that will welcome you. I was able to meet and visit many live steamers and tracks that most people would not have the opportunity too, which was the best part for me.
Weather you build or buy you have to decide what brings you the most enjoyment. Some people enjoy building, some enjoy operating, and some watching.

Jeff

[John.can]

Thank you Jeff on your insight. Btw thank you everyone for your help at for your service. I will say I've only operated one steam engine and it was the greatest experience I ever had. But I will also say I love the idea of making something from hand, especially because even though I'm a machinist mate in the navy, I don't get the opportunity to do so because the navy gives our work to ship yard. :/. I have some thinking of course to do and who knows what I'll be presented with. Currently I'm still looking for an operational turbo steam generator and a Nathan simplex lifting injector, the only hard part is one is rare and both are quiet the pretty penny. I hope more inputs are added to this thread to also support other new live steamer builders.

[Harlock]

If you choose to buy, be very choosey. 8 times out of 10 you will be inheriting "someone else's problem" unless it comes from a known builder that has built it and maintained it well. What may seem like a great low price deal may turn out to be something that is so problematic to fix that it would have been better to start over and do it right in the first place. "Shop local" is good advice. Try before you buy, and have someone experienced look it over for hidden problems.

Building is very satisfying if you can swing it. It is definitely harder while working, I'll sometimes spend over a year just building a freight car, especially now that I am married. You tend to have the money to invest in equipment but not the time. The key is to try to do something every day, even if it is a small thing for only an hour or less. Those hours all add up and it gets done quicker.

[Dick_Morris]

Some get their enjoyment from the journey, others get their enjoyment from the destination. Chose the one that would make you the happiest.

Myself, I'm a journey type of guy. It's getting less likely that I'll ever finish my second locomotive, but I enjoy every minute that I spend building it.

[Greg_Lewis]

Some get their enjoyment from the journey, others get their enjoyment from the destination. Chose the one that would make you the happiest.

Myself, I'm a journey type of guy. It's getting less likely that I'll ever finish my second locomotive, but I enjoy every minute that I spend building it.

x 2. But you can do both. And keep in mind that you don't need a shipyard's worth of machinery to make stuff. Check out the threads by one of our posters here, Hudson Honey, who makes lots of stuff with a Shirline lathe. (http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 45&t=88274)

[Benjamin Maggi]

Do you want an engine you can run now (if so, buy one) or one you likely won't be running for 10+ years (if so, build).

[Bill Shields]

Building really is not an option considering your situation.

I have a friend that worked for NYCRR and in his career moved 19 times.

The first thing to be packed was the shop, the last thing to be unpacked was the shop. Some places where he lived, he had no space to even set up the shop, so it sat in boxes.

he was building a 3/4" Atlantic with a 9" south bend, a drill press and 10000's of hand tools that could be picked up by 2 people and put in a moving truck.

I have it to finish...he 'worked' on it for 60 years (give or take).

Just MOVING a shop capable of constructing a 1-1/2" loco is a chore beyond what most moving companies will even consider.