Allen engine modifications

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NP317
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon

Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by NP317 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:12 pm

LVRR2095 wrote:
NP317 wrote:
John.can wrote:
Yes, I can send you photos. PM me here and we can communicate with direct emails. Unless the rest of this gang wants to see boring plumbing photos, too. I'll need to dig out my Ten Wheeler, as it's presently buried in the new garage/shop, following a 300 mile move from Seattle to Northern Oregon...
Pic attached: Like "Where's Waldo?" Can you find the Ten Wheeler and the steamboat? They are buried even deeper now...
It looks like you have a nice BMW motorcycle there!
I wonder how many other motorcyclists there are on this board? There is a 1927 Indian Scout in my shop.
Keith
Actually, that motorcycle is a 2007 Ural Retro with sidecar. A REALLY great ride! I also have a 2003 Ural Wolf, which is a factory-chopped (mildly) version of the Retro solo. Both have the tractor-like 750cc torquey engines, 4-speeds forward + reverse! Lots of fun, between steaming adventures. Someday I'll build a locomotive-hauling platform where the sidecar tub sits, and have some more fun...

But a '27 Indian Scout? You are serious about your bikes!
Our local Hood River, Oregon, Aviation/Automobile/Motorcycle Museum ( http://www.waaamuseum.org ) has two old original Indian motorcycles, with inline 4-cylinder engines. Like the 100+ airplanes there, those two bikes are licensed and get operated every year! I'm getting this museum interested in a steam component to their collections. The director even likes the idea of a 7.5" gauge railroad on the grounds. My retirement will be VERRRRY busy...
~RN

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John_S
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Location: Cumming, GA

Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by John_S » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:35 pm

Throwing my two cents in here.

1. I originally used the aluminum siderods with bronze bushings. I tossed those out (well, donated them to the foundry at our RR to be made into switch stands) and made a new set out of steel with Delrin AF bushings. I wrote up a thread about it here: http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... ul+siderod

The biggest change I made was to the design of the connecting pin between the forward and rear rod. A few other folks here have done similar improvements to that pin. Oddly enough, while I was still running the aluminum rods, on two separate trips to Mid-South Live Steamers I had both pins fall out -- the engineer side on one visit there and then the fireman side on a different visit the following year!

2. I really wish I had done equalized brake rigging. Whenever I tear the loco down for major repairs I'll probably swap out the fixed for equalized.

3. As previously stated, silver solder the rocker arms onto the shafts. The split pin will wear out that bronze casting pretty quick.

4. If burning coal, substitute 3/4 i.d. flues in the boiler. Marty is the expert here, so I'd bug him for as much advice as possible!

Cary Stewart
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Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by Cary Stewart » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:51 pm

Charlie Docksteader used 7075 aluminum for his side rods. His El Gubanador ran 30,000 actual miles before he had to bush them. I think he did the same on his CP 10 Wheeler and the Mastadon 4-8-0. 7075 is quite strong but is harder to machine and a little heavier than common 6061 or the average casting aluminum. RRSC used aluminum rods for the CP173 and probably others with some success. Gary Kubicek and others have said that not steam engine prototype ever used aluminum for anything with any stress. Probably just decoration. O1 is fairly stable when machined so I think that that would make a good material. However, currently the price of ground flat stock of sizes that would be useful for side rods on a 1.5"/1.6" loco might be kind of pricey.
Cary

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Greg_Lewis
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Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by Greg_Lewis » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:58 pm

Why not steel siderods? That's what I used. A piece I got from some scrapyard for 50 cents. Got a week's worth of fun out of that.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

Steve Alley
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Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:30 am

Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by Steve Alley » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:42 pm

Hi this is Steve Alley new owner of Allen Models, I have been reading the post and have been keeping a open mind on the subjects that are important that I can do something about. Today I took a trip to the cast Iron foundry and drop off patterns to have them inspected and make one offs to see if this is going to work out. The patterns were the smoke box w/cores, stack w/core, and the front pilot beam w/ core. So what I am look at is adding weight to the front of Loco's. Next will be steam and sand dome with lids.
In the future I will be look into lazier cut frames as per drawings. If you all out there thinks some of this is wrong then speek now PLEASE! I appreciate your input. This is a long process to make changes so be patience with me and the time frame to make it happen.

Note have been working on a big new web site. One problem I see out there is part numbers with no picture to see what that part is. Well soon that will be in the past, ours will have this and more. I wont let the cat out of the bag yet. But for the new beginer this is the web site that will make you get off the fence. No I do not offer castings machine but may be in the future there maybe sub section that show up on the site that are finish ready to drop in to the frame and go.
Next is just getting my feet wet sort of speak on just keeping inventory at a good level. There is a lot more part numbers and the little things for the Allen Models Loco's, beside the foundry side of things. I have a great Lazier guy but lack in design or drawing type work. I have hit road blocks and not finding the one guy that I can turn to do this work. Cad draws is my weakness. I would like to offer pre cut parts when ever possible to you the costumer.
I believe the equalized brake is important but yet don't have the time to get it done and draw up a solution that will show alternate way to have all Allen Models cover in one drawing that will fit the problem. Work in progress, If some one has time to draw something up it would be much appreciated. But please don't call if you just what to talk about it my time is running real thin. I am here to supply your next Loco and others. I have not seen any money in the next 3 year going any where but back into this business to offer more any better product to you the costumer. Please don't beat me up, I am like you guys and gals just wanting more steam hitting the tracks.
Keep posting I am listening
Steve Alley

Andy Rafferty
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Location: Walland, Tennessee

Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by Andy Rafferty » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:57 pm

This may have already been covered Steve Alley: But if you have the chance change the cylinders back to the older style where the steam port doesn't blow out to the end of the cylinder. The original style allowed for proper spacing of the head bolts with some metal all the way around for a better sealing surface on the heads. Thanks to you and Marty for helping keep this great product alive for all of us and the new builders to come!

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John_S
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Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by John_S » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:25 pm

Andy Rafferty wrote:This may have already been covered Steve Alley: But if you have the chance change the cylinders back to the older style where the steam port doesn't blow out to the end of the cylinder. The original style allowed for proper spacing of the head bolts with some metal all the way around for a better sealing surface on the heads. Thanks to you and Marty for helping keep this great product alive for all of us and the new builders to come!
I didn't encounter this problem when building my mogul. My castings were from around 1986 or so, so I'm not sure if they fall into the "old design" you mention.

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Marty_Knox
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Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by Marty_Knox » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:34 pm

Andy Rafferty wrote:This may have already been covered Steve Alley: But if you have the chance change the cylinders back to the older style where the steam port doesn't blow out to the end of the cylinder. The original style allowed for proper spacing of the head bolts with some metal all the way around for a better sealing surface on the heads. Thanks to you and Marty for helping keep this great product alive for all of us and the new builders to come!
That change was made by Gene about 10-12 years ago. The idea was to make the core larger, and therefore stronger. I have machined the newer cylinders with the older bolt pattern - you do have to use a longer bolt at the top but it seals the cylinder better.

Cabbagestack
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Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by Cabbagestack » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:43 am

John.can wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:40 pm
..... since the navy won't teach me to be an actual machinist mate....
Probably should have picked a rating like Machinery Repairman rather than Machinist Mate.

Machinists Mate by definition does things like "....operate, maintain, and repair (organizational and intermediate level) ship propulsion machinery, auxiliary equipment..." yada yada. So they are teaching you to be an actual Machinist Mate. It's just that Machinists Mates do not utilize machine shop equipment, machine tools or inspection gages/equipment and the like to any appreciable extent. 2 cents --- 10 yrs Military :wink:

John.can
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Re: Allen engine modifications

Post by John.can » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:09 am

You're definitely not long, considering we had our own machine shop, however, I was a nuke and that reason was to continue research in alternate fuel sources instead of coal or lpg. I ended up getting more training on primary maintenance but also was trained to work on steam plant equipment in the end. I guess I'll just learn from the masters at my current society in London. At the time this post started I was still a member of the Chula Vista Live Steamers, now I'm a member of the Malden and District Society of Model Engineers. Always appreciate the guidance. Currently in the planning stages of building Desert Princess Southern Pacific 9. Collecting bits and pieces but hopefully others can use the input on this chat as guidance for their allen models too. Side note: I separated 27 Dec 17' so it's been a bit since I've been in now haha

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