Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

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Pontiacguy1
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

FYI: If you are using a grinding wheel correctly, you end up dressing most of it away over time to keep it sharp. If you need a good, flat profile for doing some fine work, then use a diamond to get your wheel face flat. You might need to clamp a guide on your work rest to make sure you get a straight profile.

Also: Your work rest should always be adjusted to within 1/8" of the face of the grinding wheel or less. This will keep material from being pulled in and jammed between the work rest and the wheel itself, possibly damaging the wheel or flinging something out at you. The tongue guard (at the top of the guard opening) should be adjusted to within 1/4" of the face of the wheel or less. It is there to keep things contained in the case of wheel explosion or chunks coming out of the wheel.

Back to the thread topic: There is now a loctite that is made for use in higher temperatures. It is not the green 'sleeve retainer' type, but is made for fastener retention up to 650 degrees. I've used loctite many times on wheels, axles, etc... It's good to machine a press fit, just so that you get in the habit of working to tight tolerances and making things fit right. If you miss it, then you can always fall back on the other. I've also found that loctite doesn't work as well on highly polished surfaces. You might need to rough it up just a little bit so that the loctite has something to grab.
rkcarguy
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by rkcarguy »

I worked for a machine "job shop" for several years, and have machined and repaired a lot of shaft/hub connections in everything from marine to farm applications.
I always shoot for .0015"-.002" press fit for ~1" diameter parts, and had good luck with putting the hub/wheel in the oven and the shaft in the freezer. Cast iron seams to expand more, and often a cast iron hub would simply drop onto the shaft(always have a shoulder or set screw on a temporary collar as a stop), and then lock in place as it cooled. For me, Loctite was used if my press fit became a slip fit, but do not use it if you have ANY slop, as effectively your load will be placed upon dried Loctite, not steel, and the joint will come loose.
In the event of an oversize hole, there is a few options. Steel and cast iron can be heated, and will shrink *further* beyond it's original size when it cools again. This is why cylinder heads warp when an engine is overheated, the side facing the block shrinks upon cool off. So say if you blew the bore by a couple thousandths, it's possible some heat/cooling cycles could bring it back to a tight enough fit to retain it with Loctite or even get a press fit again.
Lastly, I am not against coming in with the TIG welder and placing 3-4 little fusion welds to keep things together. Wrap the parts in a wet rag, dive in quick with the torch and with high amperage(don't sit there easing into the power while heating the parts up) lay down 2-3 tiny puddles as fast as you can, rotate 180* and repeat, then 90* and repeat 2x.
Loctite cures in the absence of air, and obviously some needs to remain in the joint for it to do it's job. I've ran the boring bar into a hub, and put in a few very shallow grooves for the Loctite to sit in, when working with TGP(turned/ground/polished) shaft materials and nicely bored parts that wouldn't hold any Loctite.
For my RR, I got lazy and ordered a .998" reamer for my wheels, and am using cold rolled 1" round for the axles. This stuff is called out as 1.000" +.000/-.002, so I'm confident I can get a good fit, and I'll be welding the axles to the wheels on the locomotive regardless.
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Harold_V
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Harold_V »

Pontiacguy1 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:36 am FYI: If you are using a grinding wheel correctly, you end up dressing most of it away over time to keep it sharp. If you need a good, flat profile for doing some fine work, then use a diamond to get your wheel face flat. You might need to clamp a guide on your work rest to make sure you get a straight profile.
Heh! If you prepare the wheel as you suggest, it's useless. A diamond dressed wheel for offhand grinding cuts hot and poorly. A dressing stick or an impact dresser is recommended to rough up the diamond dressed surface, making the wheel perform to satisfaction.

One of the things to consider. If a wheel is dressed only to keep it sharp, chances are the wheel is not suited to the application. Wheels, especially wheels used in offhand grinding, should be friable enough to shed dull abrasive bits, refreshing the grinding surface. In my experiences, when the wheel choice is correct, the wheel needs to be dressed more because it's wearing unevenly than because it's dull.

It's hard for most folks to understand that the wheel that is typically provided for a bench or pedestal grinder is extremely poorly suited to grinding HSS.

H
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Pontiacguy1
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

If you need a proper PROFILE on your grinding wheel, then you'd better be using something besides your dressing stick!!
It really depends on what you intend to do with your grinder. If you're like me and use it mostly to sharpen drill bits and such, you need a straight profile or you're not going to be able to get a good straight grind on your drill bit.
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by warmstrong1955 »

Pontiacguy1 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:14 pm If you need a proper PROFILE on your grinding wheel, then you'd better be using something besides your dressing stick!!
It really depends on what you intend to do with your grinder. If you're like me and use it mostly to sharpen drill bits and such, you need a straight profile or you're not going to be able to get a good straight grind on your drill bit.
I disagree.
A dressing stick is what I have used for years.
If you are using a good, and correct, wheel for HSS, like a nice white Norton, it will be shedding quickly as you grind any HSS. You have to move around, sideways, as you grind, to maintain a flat surface. Knocking yourself out to get a straight profile, past a good flat face which is eyed in, is a waste of time as far as I am concerned. It will not be flat after the first shake of a drill bit.
Small bits....move over to a flat place.
Larger bits, may take a redress, or more, depending on the condition, to get them sharp.

Bill
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
Pontiacguy1
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Fine. Whatever gives you the results you want. I'm just not going to argue with you about it. I get results that work perfectly fine for the type of grinding and resharpening that I do, and I do it the way that was taught to me by industry experts and people with years of experience.
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Harold_V
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Harold_V »

Pontiacguy1 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:14 pm If you need a proper PROFILE on your grinding wheel, then you'd better be using something besides your dressing stick!!
We're not talking about a "proper profile" for offhand grinding. A reasonably flat wheel, something easily produced with a dressing stick, is more than adequate. Been doing it that way for many, many years and have enjoyed success to be envied.

This boring tool was ground freehand, no work rest, with a dressing stick prepared wheel, as is my routine.

Boring tool1.jpg
It really depends on what you intend to do with your grinder. If you're like me and use it mostly to sharpen drill bits and such, you need a straight profile or you're not going to be able to get a good straight grind on your drill bit.
My ability to hand shape a wheel and achieve a flat surface isn't lacking. Nor are my offhand grinding skills, as you may have concluded from the picture posted, above.

I worked in precision grinding for years, and if there's one thing I learned, it's that a diamond dressed wheel sucks for offhand grinding. Thus, you might benefit by paying attention to what's been discussed.

I read your comments in response to Bill, where you touted your knowledge gained from those in industry. The voices heard here also have ties to industry, and are examples of hard learned experiences.

H
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Pontiacguy1
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

We all get it now... You-right, me-wrong... You-smart, me-dumb...

Can we push this back to what the original thread was about anyway?
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Harold_V
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by Harold_V »

Pontiacguy1 wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:54 am We all get it now... You-right, me-wrong... You-smart, me-dumb...

Can we push this back to what the original thread was about anyway?
Chuckle!
Nice reply, but don't expect to post misinformation on this board ("If you need a proper PROFILE on your grinding wheel, then you'd better be using something besides your dressing stick!!") and have it stand. People who are hoping to gain knowledge and improve their abilities do not benefit by the opinion of one who doesn't have the experience of those who have gone before him and refuses to acknowledge what is clearly known and understood by them.

As to sticking to the topic at hand, while we expect readers to stay on topic, that doesn't mean that other topics can't be included in conversation. In fact, it's encouraged, as many valuable bits of information can be, and often are, disclosed, but only when the change of topic relates to the basic theme of the board, and, in this case, it clearly does. After all, it IS shop related.

So, yeah----me right, you wrong. :lol:

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
765nkp
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by 765nkp »

Wow! Very productive. Sarcastically of course. I want to read more about Loctite!!!

Thanks
John Hasler
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by John Hasler »

765nkp wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:55 pm Wow! Very productive. Sarcastically of course. I want to read more about Loctite!!!

Thanks
http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/loctite- ... -13281.htm
optigman
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Re: Wheels to axles — which Loctite?

Post by optigman »

Just following up to see which product you wound up using and if you are happy with the results? I heard someone comment at our club (after reading your post) that some riding car wheels were loctited almost a decade ago and none have failed. The wheels were a constant problem before being loctited and new axels would have been called for but the "glue" as some call it saved the day! optigman
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