Hydrostatic Lubricator

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daves1459
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Plainfield, Illinois

Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by daves1459 »

I'm fitting a hydrostatic, also called sight feed lubricator, to my 1.6 scale NYC & HR 999 project. I know mechanical lubricators are simpler to install and operate. But, hydrostatic lubricators were used in 1893 and I'd like to try to make one work. I made provisions in the cylinder block for a mechanical lubricator if I fail.

My lubricator is the vertical floating drop of oil in a sight glass type that mounts on the back head of the boiler. I have enough reference material to build the lubricator itself. My questions relate to the tube that runs from the lubricator exit/delivery under the boiler lagging/casing to the steam chest and the steam stop valve location.

1. I'm using a 3/32" diameter copper tube with a .064" diameter I.D. to run the 3 foot plus distance from the lubricator to the steam chest. Is this tube big enough? I've read the tube must slant down hill to the steam chest with no humps in it. Does the slope have to be steep or will a gradual slope do?

2. Prototype hydrostatic lubricators had a "choke" or orifice at each end of the tube. One right at the outlet/feed of the lubricator and one at the inlet to the steam chest. The choke at the lubricator had a bigger bore than the one at the steam chest. I can find the diameter of the steam chest but have nothing about the lubricator choke so I can't determine the flow area ratio. Are the chokes necessary for model steam loco installations? If so, what should the choke diameters be? If not is some sort of needle valve at the lubricator outlet required. Or?

3. Is it O-K to mount the lubricator steam stop valve on the steam turret? Or is that a problem like with the water glass that the water lever is affected when the other turret valves are opened and closed? My original 1893 drawings show the stop valve on the turret.

If there is a book or magazine article available that describes in detail the installation of a hydrostatic lubricator on a live steam locomotive I would very much like to learn how I can acquire a copy.

Dave
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gwrdriver
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Location: Nashville Tennessee

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by gwrdriver »

Dave,
Years ago a friend and mentor, who was a superb machinist and model builder, built a pair of such a hydrostatic lubricator to the words & music of LBSC. Neither worked satisfactorily in tests so they were removed and replaced with a mechanical lubricator. Even so, it would probably be informative to have a look at the LBSC design to see how he approached it and whether it could be corrected or improved.

If you Google "LBSC hydrostatic lubricator" of "sight feed lubricator" tons of references come up. Here's one but it's a long one. http://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/96 ... rs-article

Coincidentally, my friend (now deceased) always wanted to build a 999, and did make wheel and cylinder patterns, but other loco and boiler projects got in the way.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN
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Short Line Tom
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 pm
Location: Römerberg/Germany

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by Short Line Tom »

Dave,
since 25 years I'm using a sight feed lubricator on my 2.5 scale NG engine "Tobi", successfully and without any trouble.
The oil tank and the oil sight feed fittings were bought finished from an english supplier.
My lubricator steam stop valve is connected directly to the steam turret.
I'm using 2.5 mm O.D. copper tube with a 1.5 mm I.D. which is equal to your 3/32" tube.
I run the delivery tube on the boiler lagging.
The oil sight feed fittings are filled with glycerol instead of saltwater.
Oil check valves are not permitted on the steam chest.
The enclosed pics should explain my setup.
English is not my native tongue, so I hope it's understandable. ;-)

Cheers!
Tom
IMG_1566 - Kopie.jpg
IMG_1443 - Kopie.jpg
IMG_1567 - Kopie.jpg
Pontiacguy1
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Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Dang! That thing is pretty! I really like that color blue on the jacket.
BTW: I was digging through a bunch of stuff I had bought one time and came up with the whole dual hydrostatic lubrication system just as you are describing here. It had been taken off of something, I don't know what, and who knows how old it is.
daves1459
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Plainfield, Illinois

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by daves1459 »

Short Line Tom wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:42 am Dave,
since 25 years I'm using a sight feed lubricator on my 2.5 scale NG engine "Tobi", successfully and without any trouble.
The oil tank and the oil sight feed fittings were bought finished from an english supplier.
My lubricator steam stop valve is connected directly to the steam turret.
I'm using 2.5 mm O.D. copper tube with a 1.5 mm I.D. which is equal to your 3/32" tube.
I run the delivery tube on the boiler lagging.
The oil sight feed fittings are filled with glycerol instead of saltwater.
Oil check valves are not permitted on the steam chest.
The enclosed pics should explain my setup.
English is not my native tongue, so I hope it's understandable. ;-)

Cheers!
Tom

IMG_1566 - Kopie.jpg
IMG_1443 - Kopie.jpg
IMG_1567 - Kopie.jpg
For a sight feed system such as your set up is the oil delivery from the lubricator to the steam chest under boiler steam pressure or relying on gravity to feed the oil.

Dave
Rwilliams
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Location: Central California

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by Rwilliams »

I work at a local museum where the steam supply valves for most of the appliances come off of the big turret housing. Best to be sure of the seating of the steam supply valve for the lubricator to insure it does not leak when refilling the lubricator with steam oil. I am now including an additional safety relief hole system in the fill plug just to make sure the inexperienced engineers do not forget to close the steam valve and get a big surprise when removing the filler plug. Taking steam right from the turret is probably the best way to insure a nice steam supply to the lubricator in scale operation.
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Short Line Tom
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Location: Römerberg/Germany

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by Short Line Tom »

wrote: Dang! That thing is pretty! I really like that color blue on the jacket.
@ "Pontiacguy1"
Thx :)
.... off topic ...
30 years ago I was starting to build my 2-4-0 NG engine.
Just at that time, the famous "Dampfbahn Furka-Bergstrecke" began the rebuilding of their first steam loco.
The paint scheme for that loco was "Kobaltblau RAL 5013" .....
.... so I thought, this would be a nice colour for my plantation engine too.
That's the short story, how my loco became the blue colour . ;-)
IMG_5829.JPG
wrote: For a sight feed system such as your set up is the oil delivery from the lubricator to the steam chest under boiler steam pressure or relying on gravity to feed the oil.
@ Dave
The oil delivery from the lubricator to the steam chest relies on the steam pressure of the boiler, or rather, the hydraulic pressure of the hot boiler water (condensed steam).
wrote: ........... Best to be sure of the seating of the steam supply valve for the lubricator to insure it does not leak when refilling the lubricator with steam oil. I am now including an additional safety relief hole system in the fill plug just to make sure the inexperienced engineers do not forget to close the steam valve and get a big surprise when removing the filler plug. ...........
@ "Rwilliams"
Thx for that important notice!
My oil tank has a safety relief hole in the drain plug. :wink:

Cheers!
Tom
jessebanning
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Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by jessebanning »

We will be offering a 2.5" scale version in the very near future. I have attached some photos and video of the prototype working the bugs out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGths6wONbQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3NfMcj48s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGths6wONbQ
Attachments
Hydrostatic Lubricator 1.JPG
Hydrostatic Lubricator 2.JPG
www.banninglocomotiveworks.com

www.littleengines.com
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Short Line Tom
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 pm
Location: Römerberg/Germany

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by Short Line Tom »

@ jessebanning

unfortunately, the videos are not very clear.
Your design looks like the SIGHT-FEED LUBRICATOR in J.G.A. Meyer's book (Modern Locomotive Construction 1892, page 556).
I miss (or couldn't see) one very important feature on your design, the (needle) valves, which regulates the quantity of oil entering the sight-feed glasses.
Two or three drops per minute are sufficient.

Cheers!
Tom

ps: 20 years ago, I've made a pencil sketch for such an oiler (only LH sight-feed glass shown).
SIGHT-FEED LUBRICATOR_date 1999.jpg
daves1459
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Plainfield, Illinois

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by daves1459 »

jessebanning wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:15 pm We will be offering a 2.5" scale version in the very near future. I have attached some photos and video of the prototype working the bugs out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGths6wONbQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3NfMcj48s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGths6wONbQ
Is the drawing of what appears to be a Detroit lubricator included in your photo attachments something you would want to share? If so I'd like a copy.

Dave
daves1459
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Plainfield, Illinois

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by daves1459 »

Short Line Tom wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:05 am @ jessebanning

unfortunately, the videos are not very clear.
Your design looks like the SIGHT-FEED LUBRICATOR in J.G.A. Meyer's book (Modern Locomotive Construction 1892, page 556).
I miss (or couldn't see) one very important feature on your design, the (needle) valves, which regulates the quantity of oil entering the sight-feed glasses.
Two or three drops per minute are sufficient.

Cheers!
Tom

ps: 20 years ago, I've made a pencil sketch for such an oiler (only LH sight-feed glass shown).
SIGHT-FEED LUBRICATOR_date 1999.jpg
My mistake, it is this drawing I was asking about. I'd like to look i tover if possible for construction ideas.

Thanks Dave
daves1459
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Plainfield, Illinois

Re: Hydrostatic Lubricator

Post by daves1459 »

Short Line Tom wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:42 am Dave,
since 25 years I'm using a sight feed lubricator on my 2.5 scale NG engine "Tobi", successfully and without any trouble.
The oil tank and the oil sight feed fittings were bought finished from an english supplier.
My lubricator steam stop valve is connected directly to the steam turret.
I'm using 2.5 mm O.D. copper tube with a 1.5 mm I.D. which is equal to your 3/32" tube.
I run the delivery tube on the boiler lagging.
The oil sight feed fittings are filled with glycerol instead of saltwater.
Oil check valves are not permitted on the steam chest.
The enclosed pics should explain my setup.
English is not my native tongue, so I hope it's understandable. ;-)

Cheers!
Tom

IMG_1566 - Kopie.jpg
IMG_1443 - Kopie.jpg
IMG_1567 - Kopie.jpg

I rather thought pressure was involved to overcome the steam chest pressure so to move the oil. However. I cannot see a steam connection to the top of the sight glass assembly to balance the internal pressure and love the oil like those used on prototype lubricators. How is it done? Also, I don't understand the hydraulic action at all that you mentioned.

Thanks, Dave
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