Could this work?

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doublereefed
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Could this work?

Post by doublereefed » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:42 pm

I have a 15,000 BTU head for a Seiverts torch. Think this same setup could work in order to do treadmill testing an otherwise coal fired Allen Mogul? It would make it much easier to do the testing on the treadmill and stand... and wouldn't create the huge coal mess in my garage workshop... not to mention having to figure out how to vent all the coal smoke, etc.

Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/fU9V6iM8o4Q

James Powell
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Re: Could this work?

Post by James Powell » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:54 pm

It may work. It won't provide enough heat to do much, (it's about 4 hp of heat, if my mental math isn't too bad, which makes it about 1/6th hp output available), but it will provide enough to test & trial. I think we used the 2 kg/h burner with the engine, and I'm currently using a pair of SolarFlow's at mmm...a lot... of propane in the small wagon. (enough that it doesn't burn clean unless you have a lot of draft, which needs a lot of propane...)

So yes, it likely will work for you, but don't expect full chooch factor out of it.

Our setup with the traction engine was a 20 lb bottle under a milk crate, on a little red wagon, with a (then 10 year old me) as the driver. YMMV, but it worked quite well indoors at the Hobby Show for the 2 years we were allowed to do it. Torch was just stuffed into the firedoor, aimed at the tubes. Might be hard on the boiler if done for long, I would recommend if done for any real length of time to investigate aiming the fire at the back wall if possible, with an arch.

James

doublereefed
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Re: Could this work?

Post by doublereefed » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:27 am

Good point about slowing down the flow. I'd probably make turbulators. But now that you mention it, a sheet of stainless, like an arch, would also likely incandesce... adding some efficiency. I really just need to get it up to pressure for testing appliances under steam, also need to work on valve timing.

Thanks for the input James.

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Builder01
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Re: Could this work?

Post by Builder01 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:12 am

The only appliance that absolutely must use steam for testing, is a feed water injector. Everything else can be tested on air including setting valve events. Save a hot boiler for the injector. With the boiler filled with air at working pressure, you can even test pumps to put water into the boiler against the working pressure.

David

doublereefed
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Re: Could this work?

Post by doublereefed » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:29 pm

David, I agree. But a steam test in my limited experience surface gremlins unseen on air. For instance, I have a a steam water pump that works great on air, has trouble on steam. I expect expansion is binding things up... TBD. I also need to test all the pumps, I guess it's not such a bad thing to pump water into a pressurized air filled boiler, just looking to bench test on steam... the heat and expansion changes things.

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Builder01
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Re: Could this work?

Post by Builder01 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:00 pm

Yes, you must ultimately test with live steam to truly reveal everything. A preliminary test on air will probably reveal things as well, before a "real" hot test. I am preparing my loco for it's annual hydro test in May. At home, I first test everything cold, on just air. Then, closer to May, (when there is no snow in my driveway!), I will make a hot test with fire in the hole. My air test has already revealed a leaky top feed check valve to the boiler. Replaced the ball, and all is fine, (at least on air!).

Even if I test on coal today, in four months, things will probably be different. Hey, it's a steam loco!

David

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tburzio
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Re: Could this work?

Post by tburzio » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:47 pm

Propane burners suffer from the time it takes for propane, a very large molecule, to bind with oxygen. In general, it takes about 2' of pipe to mix completely before burning, else you get delayed heat release. This is the reason for the turbulators, to keep the gas in the boiler for the desired time, but it's too late, carbon interrupts the reaction. Look at your outdoor gas grill, there is a REASON why they put the air intake outside the grill, and then use a huge pan in an H shape to mix the propane with the oxygen. Turbulate before burning, not after.

doublereefed
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Re: Could this work?

Post by doublereefed » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:59 pm

Yes, I can see that would be ideal. However, I have turbulators on RMI Forney, they work great. I’m sure there are efficiencies vs. the ideal, but they definitely do the job. Low fuel consumption, no odor... lots of steam.

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Bill Shields
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Re: Could this work?

Post by Bill Shields » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:54 pm

I use one of those heads, stuck in the firedoor of a 1" steamer and it works fine.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

doublereefed
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Re: Could this work?

Post by doublereefed » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:07 pm

Thanks Bill, good to know.

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