Mogul info

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MsChrissi
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:21 pm
Location: Mid West

Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

As a new member I took a week and viewed all 11,000+ topics, and read any of interest before posting.
I'm looking for information on Moguls, specifically the later years.
I am hoping to find pictures and documentation on engines with piston valves and Walschaert's gear.
I have been through many of the historic sites and rail fan sites and not found much specific material. I was hoping someone who shares my interest had discovered some gems.
Though most of the pictures I have seen appear to be oil fired I was hoping that there were coal fired ones in this valve & gear configuration as well.
Has anyone in their journeys found the spec prints for the castings used in these engines?

Thanks, Chrissi
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Fender
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Re: Mogul info

Post by Fender »

If you are looking for live steam info, the Little Engines "modern mogul" is exactly what you want.
http://littleengines.com/galleries/modern-mogul.html
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
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Fender
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Re: Mogul info

Post by Fender »

Prototype (full-size) moguls with piston valves and walschaert valve gear seem to be uncommon. Most moguls were built prior to 1910 with Stephenson valve gear and slide valves. A few were modernized with piston valves, but usually retained the inside valve gear. There are several moguls with drawings shown in the 1909 Locomotive Dictionary available from Google Books, but they all have slide valves and Stephenson valve gear.
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
Glennpa
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Re: Mogul info

Post by Glennpa »

Here's an exact example of what you're looking for. It still runs, too!

https://everettrailroad.com/alco-2-6-0-number-11/
MsChrissi
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Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Thanks Glenn, great start! I will have to bookmark that one due to lots of great pictures and construction details. I noticed it has small diameter drivers and a smaller boiler but still the right configuration. I have found some documentation and engine #'s that should have all the right stuff, will post them when I have them in a list form and maybe hunt a few down.
I'd like to add to the wish list of features, large drivers and a large diameter boiler. Ideally I love the British Rail versions of these engines (I grew up over there) but so far documentation is even more difficult to find for the UK types.
MsChrissi
Posts: 72
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Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Fender wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:31 pm If you are looking for live steam info, the Little Engines "modern mogul" is exactly what you want.
http://littleengines.com/galleries/modern-mogul.html
Thanks Dan, I have bookmarked their information. So far have not seen a kitted engine that fits 100% for me so that's why the search for details and information.
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Fender
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Re: Mogul info

Post by Fender »

The only other mogul with walschearts gear that comes to mind is the Mobile & Gulf #97. It too was built for use in Cuba, but ended up on a U.S. shortline. However, it has slide valves.
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
Doug_Edwards
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Re: Mogul info

Post by Doug_Edwards »

The Southern Pacific had a couple of classes of Moguls that had piston valves and Walchearts gear on them. The class M10, built in 1912 by Baldwin, and the class M21, which while classed as a rebuild, was for all intents and purposes new locos, built in the late 20's in Houston. Both classes had 63" drivers. The M21 class locos were beasts, with a tractive effort of 42,000 lbs. They were the heaviest and most powerful 2-6-0's built anywhere. Roger Goldman as side elevations and cross sections for the locos. I don't know of any data for the M10 class.

Regards,

Doug
http://www.precisionlocomotivecastings.com/
Building a 70 ton Willamette in 1.6"
Building a 80 ton Climax in 1.6"

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MsChrissi
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Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Thanks Doug,
The M21 sounds like something more in the direction I was looking for, thank you.

I have managed to find these but not much in the way of details except that these DLW engines were conversions and not really the valve/cylinder arrangement I was looking for:
These 20 locomotives are all from equipment diagrams, grouped by configuration but all are 2-6-0, piston valve conversions, Walschaerts:
DLW Railroad (conversion)#534, 536-540 (5)
DLW Railroad (conversion)#541-549 (9)
DLW Railroad (conversion)#564 (1)
DLW Railroad (conversion)#565-569 (5)

Other misc piston valved ones seen in pictures and to the best of my knowledge to spot from pictures they are Walschaerts gear:
XXX?thern Pacific #EX502 ...oil?
Southern Pacific #1840 ...oil?
Side erection dwg #210 coal
British rail #42968
British rail #34053
British rail #31806 ...not certain of gear
Pontiacguy1
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Re: Mogul info

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

This may be taboo for you, but I would suggest that you don't have to build to an exact prototype. You can build a locomotive that has all the features you want, and make up a name for the road or even pretend it was an experiment by your favorite railroad on upgrading older equipment. The tendency in the hobby and on this board seems to be to for everything to be as close to the prototype as possible. Freelance locomotives have a lot of advantages too, one of which is that some jack wagon can't come up and tell you that you did X wrong on your model! If you feel it has to follow a prototype, then forget everything that I just said.
A guy who had a home railroad in Texas was talking to Roy Pickard one time, and commented that he wanted a diamond on his layout, but could not figure out a way to utilize one. Roy told him, "you don't have to have a purpose for one. If you want a diamond, then put it in wherever you want to, and call it an abandoned right-of-way." Some amount of imagination and/or pretending is involved in this hobby in all types of things, so why not do the same with motive power?
MsChrissi
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Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Pontiacguy1, You make a good point and eventually I may go down that route. First I wish to fill in the holes in my knowledge base, which are extensive!
If I had an unlimited budget, which I do not, I'd buy x's and y's and z's plans and compare the bits and pieces and kitbash until I had something that approximates what I felt is a credible M-21 version of the Mogul. With some luck I hope someone locally is building these and I can look over their shoulder.
Having the resources of time, experience, tools and equipment to some degree makes up for lack of unlimited budget plus the tendency to want to do it myself. I would generally allocate my resources to buy or build another tool rather than order a premade part that with some effort I could make myself or learn why I should not have.... for example I do not see myself making an injector valve though I have designed several products on that scale in unrelated fields and though I had the tools I had professionals make the parts for me.
Where looking at existing plans is really helpful, seeing the general arrangement of how things go together, how it has been done before will help determine where I go. I was excited about Roger Goldman's drawings until I realized that the total for the two drawings with shipping did not meet 50% of the required minimum order. I did manage to find the two missing issues of Live Steam I did not have about Bob Reedy's Mogul build (3-96 through 8-97) on ebay, yay. That article is what first caught my attention way back in 1996.
rrnut-2
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Re: Mogul info

Post by rrnut-2 »

And here is another source of parts for a Mogul locomotive.

http://www.railroadsupply.com/catalog.cfm?pg=26

Jim B
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