Women in the hobby?

[Harold_V]

A guy named Titan Gilroy created an online CNC academy, and he's trying to get people to teach kids CNC before manual machining. He keeps complaining about our unwillingness to support manufacturing through education.

He says the typical line is that kids have to do manual machining for two years before they start CNC. He starts people with CAD instead and takes them directly to CNC. His rationale is that they're not going to get anywhere in industry working manual machines, and I suppose he's right. Even in the Thirties, manufacturers were relying on highly automated machinery that looked nothing like manual lathes and mills.

That may be, but the thinking is flawed. Manual machining teaches basics--the very things one needs to understand in order to make reasonable decisions in programming. It's like knowing how to grind tool bits. If you understand the geometry, and have the necessary skill to apply what you know, you are then also able to determine what's wrong with a poorly performing tool, and should be able to make the necessary corrections. Hard to do that if you don't have a basic understanding.

Note that I am not suggesting that going directly to CNC can't work. I just think that such individuals will always have questions that they may not be able to answer.

H

[Steggy]

There is no point in teaching people to thread one screw at a time when they want to design or make parts on a commercial basis...It's destructive to denigrate the skills of the people who are doing the most productive work.

A little confusion here. I didn't denigrate anyone or their occupation. All I pointed out is a fundamental difference in skills. A machinist makes things with machine tools. His or her occupation is a highly skilled one that requires a fairly lengthy training period (apprenticeship), followed by the ongoing education one gets with applying one's training in day-to-day work. It is conceivable that a machinist could make things with a CNC machining center, assuming he or she has been trained on setting up and programming the machine. However, in many cases it would be poor utilization of a costly piece of equipment, as well as a highly skilled employee, to do so, especially for onesies and twosies.

A key point I am making is most CNC operators employed in mass production scenarios do not have the skills of a machinist, nor would they need them in most situations. However, machinists would be needed to create the jigs and fixtures that are often used in CNC machining centers to hold and position the workpiece. Different skills, different purposes.

[SteveHGraham]

That may be, but the thinking is flawed. Manual machining teaches basics--the very things one needs to understand in order to make reasonable decisions in programming. It's like knowing how to grind tool bits. If you understand the geometry, and have the necessary skill to apply what you know, you are then also able to determine what's wrong with a poorly performing tool, and should be able to make the necessary corrections. Hard to do that if you don't have a basic understanding.

Note that I am not suggesting that going directly to CNC can't work. I just think that such individuals will always have questions that they may not be able to answer.

H

I assume he is shooting for the lesser of two evils. He probably knows what he's doing. He went from prison inmate to CNC machinist to highly successful CNC business owner with rows of high-dollar machines, and his two sons are successful CNC machinists.

I find it hard to believe that CNC people don't understand machining. They have to work with cutters, fluids, feeds, speeds, and materials, just like everyone else, and they also have to learn CAD and programming. They have to worry about tool paths and peak machining speeds, which are things manual machinist don't know anything about. I think it's completely inaccurate to call them "operators," as if they were alcoholics working in carnivals running the Tilt-a-Whirl.

When I lived on a kibbutz, many of my fellow volunteers worked in a CNC factory (Baccara Worldwide) that made irrigation parts. These were hung-over kids who knew absolutely nothing. They told me about a machine they called "the golden screw." You put a piece of brass in, and a screw came out. I can see how a person running a machine like that would be nothing more than an operator, but this is not what Titan Gilroy is teaching people. As I said, he starts with CAD and goes all the way programming and running the machines. That's not "operating." It's a highly skilled trade.

If his approach were wrong, he wouldn't be succeeding. Surely he is making intelligent sacrifices, choosing to emphasize what matters most and dump things that are not crucial, based on a great deal of knowledge accumulated over years of experience.

[NP317]

I suggest modern CAD/CNC software not only creates tool paths from the drawings, but also can select proper tooling, speeds and feeds, and coolant solutions to make the parts.
There are lifetimes of human experience doing this, and correlating this information into application data lists, based on materials being machined, is most likely being done now.

Also entering the manufacturing world are metal printing capabilities (additive manufacturing), which rely on computer generation from CADrawings.
So this can validate the concept of directly teaching some types of CNC machining.

Your comments, fact checking, and corrections are requested.
~RN

[Pontiacguy1]

We've been hijacked!

[SteveHGraham]

To make up for the hijacking, I was going to post a video featuring a lady working a Haas machine, but it turned out she was more of an operator than a machinist, so...

[rwmorris]

everyone wants to write computer games....

maybe we should figure out how to get them to consider a CNC machine a 'real world' game!

Bingo!!!!!

[NP317]

Oops. Sorry DianneB for my getting off topic.
Brain Fart. I lost my situational awareness.

I've known 3 women train Engineers, for Tourist steam, and dismals for UP and BNSF. Also several women Brake-persons/Conductors.
Rare breed because they have to put up with some really unpleasant men in that business.
'Still fighting their battles, as far as I know.
~RN

[DianneB]

.... because they have to put up with some really unpleasant men in that business

Some things never change ......

[SPSteam2491]

Dianne,
Going back to your original question, is the 3% you are referring to correlating to woman that drive a live steam engine or work on building/repairing one? And are you just referring to live steam?

I would have to agree, I do not know very many woman at all that do the maintenance and building side of a steam locomotive, but I have seen many women driving a steam locomotive and even more behind the controls of an electric or a gasoline engine.

I have experienced introducing many people into the hobby and the way I found to get them coming back the most, is get them out on the tracks and let them drive around and play. Starting off with having to spend 100's of hours building something and shelling out thousands of dollars can be an overwhelming task for most people and they often won't see the rewarding part of it. But get them behind something hissing, breathing, living (heck even a little electric locomotive) will want them coming back for more. I think if we take more of this approach we will see more kids (and women) coming into the hobby and, most importantly, having fun.

[DianneB]

3% comes from a couple of sources.

I got my Steam Traction Engine license many years ago. My ticket is #113 and at that time we identified 4 female operators.

My live steam club has about 50 members and there are only 2 active operators.

In terms of builders, I am the only one locally.

[thunderskunk]

I just met someone volunteering at the local full-size railroad, she’d joined with her husband. Her husband fell out after a while and she kept going, enjoyed it too much.

Also asked my wife. She thinks it’s cool and all, but when I asked her if she’d do it on her own, she said it’s too expensive, haha.

But her counter to some of the comments I was showing her was that she just plain doesn’t want to do those things. Her family has a farm, and she definitely works hard and gets dirty, but if it’s working on cars/trains or sewing and taking care of kids, she takes the latter. She happens to like cooking for bake sales.

Though if I have my say, all of our kids will be obsessed with trains, boy or girl.