Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

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davidqueener
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Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by davidqueener » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:35 pm

Gentlemen,

I am about to do a production run of 1/20th scale 24" and 26" wheelsets for Fn3 and I am looking for prototype drawings of 3' narrow gauge trucks, specifically, ones that used cast steel side frames. For instance, the C&S had a narrow gauge Bettendorf T-section truck, whereas the D&RGW had a narrow gauge Betttendorf U-section truck along with a variety of Andrews truck. Some other roads had a variety of narrow gauge A-3 ride control truck as well; and the EBT used Vulcan trucks, for which I have a pretty decent, well-dimensioned side-frame drawing.

The goal here is to turn whatever prototype data I can get into a 3D CAD model that will then get 3D printed for an investment casting.

So does anyone have any prototype drawings he could share with me?

Thanks,

Dave Queener
Knoxville, TN
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Fender
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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by Fender » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:15 pm

Is there any difference between the n.g. trucks and standard gauge, besides the length of the axles and truck bolsters, and wheel diameter?
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FLtenwheeler
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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by FLtenwheeler » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:31 pm

Try contacting Jeff Smith of Branchline Products.

Tim
He who dies with the most unfinished projects: Should of put more time into their hobby.

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davidqueener
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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by davidqueener » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:34 pm

Fender, there are differences, as you point out. Aside from having different, typically shorter wheelbases than their standard gauge counterparts, and altogether different, narrower truck bolsters, the narrow gauge side frame castings are also much shorter in height, in order to match the lower coupler center height of narrow gauge cars. Narrow gauge journal boxes are typically of a smaller size than their standard gauge counterparts as well, though they follow the same system of sizing (4.125x8, 5x9 and so forth), since their cars generally carry much lighter loads than their standard gauge counterparts.

Some adaptations of standard gauge trucks to 3' narrow gauge have occurred. The one that most prominently comes to mind are the tender trucks on the K-37 2-8-2. The tenders themselves appear to have been almost unaltered from their standard gauge days mated to C-41 consolidations, but their archbar trucks have been modified, maybe not in terms of new bolsters, but by changing the "set" of the original archbars so that the truck bolster rides much lower; and hence, lowering the tender's coal space down to the deck of the K37's cab apron. The distance between the archbar sideframes remains the same as in standard gauge days, but when the original 33" standard gauge wheelsets were refitted with 26" wheels and re-gauged to 3', they retained standard gauge axles, with the same back-to-back dimensions between journal boxes. These trucks were really quite a kitbash, and showed how the financially strapped, D&RGW mechanical department could make do with little.

It would be instructive to see some photos of one of these trucks as it was being rebuilt. I wonder if the folks at the CRRR took pics of the tender trucks on #491 as it was being rebuilt prior to debuting in 2014?

I was once told that some of the 6500 flats may have used re-gauged standard gauge Bettendorf trucks, but this may be an apocryphal tale. Perhaps some D&RGW authority out there would like to chime in. In the meantime, here is a pic of one taken by Jerry Day from over at the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum:
_8508686.jpg
All for now,

Dave
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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by Loco112 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:37 pm

Ive got them. Its going to be the Fall before I can possibly do anything with them.
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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by Cary Stewart » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:25 pm

Another RR that used these was the Unitah. You might look for the book about the Uintah RR. It did have a lot of drawings.
Cary

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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by jeffsmith » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:35 pm

The D&RGW did have the 4' 11" Bettendorf truck cast for the 6500 flats and later the 9600 pipe gons. Somewhere there is a photo of the very first flat with arch bar trucks under it until the foundry (American Steel Foundries) could get the truck castings finished. The railroad also had ASF cast the Andrews trucks for the Long Reefers and long stock cars. Later they used that same pattern modifying it to make the 4' 8" bettendorf trucks for the frame less tank cars. I am sure this was contracted work by the refineries.

Jeff

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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by davidqueener » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:54 pm

Gentlemen,

Here's an update on what prototype drawings I have been able to find for cast steel narrow gauge trucks; and for this, I must give credit where credit is due, firstly to my friend Rich Wickett who collects EBT and BLW drawings, secondly the good folks at the Colorado RR Museum library, and to Jeff Smith of Branchline Products. These folks are true friends of the hobby, and were glad to be able to share prototype information. I cannot thank them enough!

ASF 4'-8" Andrews Side Frame
ASF 4'-8" U Section Bettendorf Side Frame
ASF 4'-11" U section Bettendorf Side Frame
ASF Cast Steel Bolster for the above Bettendorf trucks (not sure if same used with Andrews trucks)
ASF General Arrangement drawings for both 4'-8" and 4'-11" trucks

C&S Bettendorf T-section Truck General Arrangement
C&S Bettendorf T-section Truck G.A. with dimensioned Body Bolster

ASF 4'-8" Vulcan Truck Side Frame
ASF 4'-2" Vulcan Truck Side Frame
ASF Truck Bolster for 4'-8" and 4'-2" Vulcan Trucks
ASF Vulcan Tender Truck general arrangement

McKees Rocks Forging 28" Wheel
D&RGW 24" and 26" Double Plate Cast Iron Wheel finishing drawing (major dimensions only)

As you can see, the only prototype drawings I lack at this point are
(1) Bettendorf T-section side frame
(2) Bettendorf T-section truck bolster
(3) ASF Andrews Truck bolster
(4) ASF Andrews Truck General Arrangement
(5 & 6) Vulcan Tender truck side frame and bolster drawings
(7) Brake rigging components for any of the above trucks
(8) Pattern drawings for D&RGW 24" and 26" cast iron wheels

I was not at this time planning on drawing up the Vulcan tender truck in 3D CAD since these have already been nicely modeled in F scale by Rich Yoder and a friend of mine has the patterns. Of course, if someone else had a set of side frame and bolster drawings, and wanted help with a ride-on-scale EBT project, then I would be happy to assist by drawing them up.

There is also one other tender truck drawing I wish I could find, and that is for the tender trucks on the USATC 190 class 2-8-2s. It looks very much like a standard gauge A-3 Ride Control truck side frame, but with a shortened wheelbase and narrow gauge bolster. Has anyone seen any drawings for this?

So far, I have drawn up the Andrews truck side frame in SolidWorks along with an EBT 24" cast steel wheel and axle (I also extrapolated a 26" cast steel wheel from the 24" EBT wheel data measured on site by my friend Rich Wickett). I hope to get to these other parts as time permits. And once again, my thanks to all of you who have been so helpful!

Cheers,

Dave Q
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 333-5712

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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by Dick_Morris » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:24 pm

USATC 190 class 2-8-2s.
Are these the S-118 2-8-2s that the White Pass and Yukon operated? It may be a long shot, but there is a chance that the Pennsylvania State Archives may have drawings for these locomotives. In my search for USATC S-160 Consolidation drawings. ALCO was the lead on the drawings and most have an ALCO number, but the Pennsylvania archives had drawings that BLW had prepared for the locomotive, but not the "standard" ALCO drawings for the class. In many cases, BLW prepared their own drawing for parts that were interchangeable, but slightly different than the standard drawing. However, some parts (such as the foundation brake gear and possibly trucks) were purchase from other suppliers to the industry, didn't have BLW drawings, and aren't available through the archives. The BLW class designation would be 2-8-2 16S and a drawing index of the drawings ("sales order book")used on the locomotive (but not necessarily the drawings in the collection) is available for the class (although a copy can be a bit pricey). http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/mg/sd/m427sd.htm

Although the Archives has an extensive collection of BLW drawings, they are generally limited to those prepared after abut 1940.

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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by davidqueener » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:51 pm

Hi Dick,

Yes, these are the very same. I'm really surprised the USATC / White Pass 190 class mikes have not been modeled more frequently, particularly among live steamers; but then again, I have the advantage of having seen both of the operable examples in steam at Dollywood and Tweetsie RR since boyhood. I am unsure if they share the same cast steel tender trucks as the White Pass 70 class Baldwin mikes, but it is clear from photos that these are ASF castings. I specualte that the standard gauge USATC S-160 2-8-0 used the same tender truck side frames. I will post a pic below of one of the Dollywood mikes.
ASF NG Tender Truck.JPG
Dave
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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by Berkman » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:35 pm

didn't someone start a WPY 70 class 2-8-2 in 2.5 inch scale ?

Also surprising no one has built a EBT 2-8-2 or a ETWNC 4-6-0 in 2.5 inch scale.

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Re: Drawings for 3' Narrow Gauge Bettendorf & Andrews trucks

Post by Dick_Morris » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:02 am

I am unsure if they share the same cast steel tender trucks as the White Pass 70 class Baldwin mikes, but it is clear from photos that these are ASF castings. I speculate that the standard gauge USATC S-160 2-8-0 used the same tender truck side frames.
I'd be surprised if the standard and narrow gauge tenders share the same side frames. In fact, there are at least two variations of side frames used on the S-160s. In the BLW and ALCO drawings, but only for early production S-160s. They had an axle spacing of 66".Those side frames had the springs in a diamond arrangement. In most of the photos I've seen they are in a square arrangement. To complicate things, our tender didn't come from an S-160. Instead, it came from a USATC 0-6-0 tender engine. The two tenders look similar but the dimensions are a bit different. I did note that the early ALCO S-160 tender truck assembly drawing lists BLW detail parts drawings for the side frames and bolsters.

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