Passenger Car Maroon

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daves1459
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Passenger Car Maroon

Post by daves1459 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:06 am

Since we're discussing paint what would be a good maroon paint and source for wood passenger cars? I'm modeling in the 1880 to 1900 period.

I've tried a couple Floquil maroons to make color swashes to replicate. But, they seem dark and lacking brightness or a more red hue as I think would be expected of the 1880 to 1900 era.

I'm not a painter, I trust my description is adequate.

Dave

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gwrdriver
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by gwrdriver » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:05 pm

I guess it would boil down to what it would look like using a researched or "historic" color, vs. what you think it should look like.
Color is an elusive thing and each of us sees it a little differently. If it were me I think I'd take the Floquil swatches to a paint store to see how they compare with what you think it should look like. The other problem, or phenomenon, to contend with is that color on a large area looks different than the same color on small area (like a color card.)
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

James Powell
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by James Powell » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:01 pm

Equally important is going to be the gloss/varnish effect. Colours which look too dark if they are matt/semi gloss may well look quite a bit brighter if varnished...

James

Glenn Brooks
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:06 pm

As passenger cars in the day were known for their “varnish” and high luster, One thing to consider is preparing the underlying wood surface with a good seal coat then undercoat. Wood sealant fist, then one, perhaps two, layers of polyurethane or one part epoxy undercoat. This will seal the wood grain for many years, preventing water intrusion- greatly extending the life and chosen color of your top coat.

Of course there are many inexpensive and low end, DYI house paint choices around. But If you want top longevity, a nice luster, and abrasion resistance, consider Interlux or similar marine brand undercoat, plus a good wood seal coat under that. Then go with a semi gloss or gloss enamel, poly, or epoxy top coat. You may be able to find a commercial store that can mix custom colors in some sort of polyurethane base. Might be worth the extra effort to,have a nice looking and long lasting paint.

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makinsmoke
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by makinsmoke » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:03 pm

I believe the color you are looking for is Tuscan Red in Floquil. With a topcoat of semi gloss or gloss it should give you an early passenger red.

There are paint schedules around for the early wood cars. They usually started with several coats of boiled linseed oil, then the color, then varnish as has been suggested.

Today’s paints are world’s above what they had to work with at the turn of the 20th century. Houses are prepared and painted today with latex paints. Water based paints are now being used to paint cars and trucks.

I’d take a paint sample you like to Lowes, Home Depot, or Ace and have them mix you a quality exterior latex paint. To prepare the car, put on a coat of sanding sealer and finish sand if necessary. I usually start with a coat or two of exterior Kilz for latex sanding between coats. Make sure it dries completely between coats. Then one or more of your exterior latex color. Again make sure it’s completely dry between coats. Letter the car. Then top coat with rattle can satin or gloss spar urethane. Light coats dry faster. Let it dry completely.

That will give you a finish that will last for years, given the exterior house paint is made to sit outside for years. None of us ever leave our equipment outside for extended periods of time.

Cary Stewart
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by Cary Stewart » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:40 pm

Consider Pantone colors as a base. The folks that do restorations on the Virginia & Truckee rolling stock have matched the industrial archyology (spelling?) and come up with what are very close matches to the original paints. The last remaining car to have been at Promontory had at one time a very red/maroon color applied in the 1880s.
Cary

Kevin S
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by Kevin S » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:49 pm

One thing you will also need to remember is today's pigments in the color are a lot different then the ones they used. The different pigments will give a similar color but will have different characteristics, like you said brighter deeper red. The suggestions given so far is good advice, another avenue to check would be automotive paint and they can tweak it some to get the proper hue you are looking for.
-Kevin S.

Cary Stewart
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by Cary Stewart » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:57 pm

Another thing to keep in mind is that when the paint is wet it is different than when it is dry. My late uncle was a master painter-decorator. He tried to get me to learn some of his knowledge but I wasn't interested at the time. He was painting RR cars and structures with his dad in the pre WWI era when they manufactured their paint on site. He joined the Navy during WWI and spent 4 years painting the inside of ships at Great Lakes Navel Center. When he an his partner got to work after the war they painted rich folks houses throughout the depression. Painted the outside in the summer and the inside in the winter when the families went south with the rest of the snow birds. He was never without work.
Cary

daves1459
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by daves1459 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:22 pm

Thank you fellas! These are all good comments and suggestions. I will follow up on them and try to come up with a workable solution.

Dave

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LVRR2095
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by LVRR2095 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:47 am

I wouldn’t worry greatly about an “exact” shade. Nobody that was alive in the 1800’s is around today to say whether or not you are right or wrong.
It is your equipment, paint it whatever looks good to you.

Keith

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FLtenwheeler
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by FLtenwheeler » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:03 am

Pennsylvania Railroad Tuscan Red

DuPont Dulux 5505D

5450S Drier 3.7

34D Dark Red 4.6

42D Violet 7.2

1D White 10.5

2D Black 21.8

35D Maroon 52.7

38D Red Oxide 91.0
He who dies with the most unfinished projects: Should of put more time into their hobby.

Pontiacguy1
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Re: Passenger Car Maroon

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:47 am

I wouldn’t worry greatly about an “exact” shade. Nobody that was alive in the 1800’s is around today to say whether or not you are right or wrong.
Not only that, but paints faded over time, so are you modeling a brand-new car or freshly shopped one, one that has seen a few years of service, or one that is about at the end of its life? The colors will be different. If you can get it close, then it's going to look good. That and using the same color for all of your consist. Nothing like having two cars that look alike but each one is a slightly different shade.

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