Paint help

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amadlinger
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: Central NJ

Paint help

Post by amadlinger » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:57 am

Hi all,

As the weather warms, I am turning my attention to painting the components for my new 1.5" scale 2-8-0 build. I have elected to use Axalta (formerly DuPont) Variprime 615S as the primer, as I have found that it is quite tenacious in bonding to brass, bronze, stainless steel, steel, etc while also thin enough not to obscure any of the details.

However, I am having difficulties selecting a good satin black topcoat. I used Rust-Oleum Industrial Enamel spray can paint on my 0-6-0 when I built it 14 years ago, and after all these years of use I am not thrilled with how it has held up. I am similarly not thrilled with how other projects I have done using Scalecoat and Floquil have held up over the years. I have used Klass Kote epoxy paint on my rolling stock, but I do not favor it for the locomotive because of it's long-term UV instability.

Therefore, up until a few days ago, I was settled this time on using a satin black 2-component, single-stage acrylic urethane from either Eastwood (https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-rat-r ... paint.html) or SEM (https://www.semproducts.com/product/hot ... ck-kit/kit). They refer to it as "Rat Rod Black" and "Hot Rod Black," respectively. However, I recently did a test using the Eastwood Rat Rod Black and was very disappointed with how easily the paint chipped. Could that just be a problem with Eastwood, and I would have better luck with SEM? Or is that a problem with all urethanes. Would an enamel be better, such as mixing Rust-Oleum out of a 1qt can with the use of a hardener? Is there something else I am missing?

I am looking for thoughts, suggestions, and advice as to what would be the best paint to use for long term durability and robustness against the inevitable scratches, dings, etc that a hard-working locomotive gets. I have all necessary equipment to mix and spray my own paint (HVLP gun, etc) and have the requisite PPE (respirators, etc) to spray paint of any toxicity, so really this boils down to what is the best for the application. Again, this needs to be a satin black finish.

Many thanks in advance for any and all ideas as to what works and what doesn't work.

Sincerely,
Adam

Pontiacguy1
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Paint help

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:23 am

I have had good luck using barbecue grille paint on my locomotives. Ace has it in both gloss and flat. It will definitely take the heat.

Steve Bratina
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:39 pm
Location: Cambridge Ontario

Re: Paint help

Post by Steve Bratina » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:48 am

I have used engine block,high temperature paint with good results. All of my other engines I used Krylon and they are still holding up good.

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Greg_Lewis
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Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Paint help

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:09 pm

amadlinger wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:57 am
...
I used Rust-Oleum Industrial Enamel spray can paint on my 0-6-0 when I built it 14 years ago, and after all these years of use I am not thrilled with how it has held up.
...

Adam:
How would you describe the lifespan of the Rust-Oleum in relation to the amount of running your 0-6-0 had? About how often was your engine run during those years? I'm thinking that if the engine was run frequently then perhaps 14 years is a reasonable lifespan for the paint. OTOH if you had it in storage and only took it out a few times a year then one would certainly expect the paint to still be good.

And what sort of issues are you having with it?

Thanks.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

amadlinger
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: Central NJ

Re: Paint help

Post by amadlinger » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:32 pm

Hi Greg,

A great question. In those 14 years, I probably have run it at least a dozen times per year, each run being usually 5-8 hours at a clip (I usually have a full "crew" of engineers and we rotate running the locomotive continuously during the course of the day). It's a coal burner, so it definitely gets a lot of grime. I have steadily increased the length of my train as I built more cars, I now have 15, so it's a hard working engine.

In terms of issues, the problems could best be described as wear. The attached photo is from last September at White Creek (after a hard day of running, please excuse the grime). On close inspection, you can see the paint wearing off the front pilot beam, front steps, radiator pipe, handrail stanchions, and air compressor filter. The discoloration you see on the jacket is just ash and grime, the paint on the jacket itself is holding up fine (a testament to the primer, as the jacket is stainless steel).

Thoughts?

Sincerely,
Adam
20190906_141009.jpg

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squandt
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Location: cleveland ohio

Re: Paint help

Post by squandt » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:35 pm

I worked in the thermoforming industry for 15 years in California making medical and computer case parts that had to hold up to all kinds of miss handling.We use primer and a two part paint from Cascade Coating of San Jose Ca.There website is W.W.W.cascade-coating.com you can check with there staff about your need.
stay on the shine side of the rail

Glenn Brooks
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Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Paint help

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:42 pm

Greg, I’ve decided to stay away from All Rustoleum paint. I’ve found that it chips badly at the slightest impact with any metal object. Frustrating how easily it chips, and how big the flakes are that pop off the surface. No more for me!

Alternatantly, when I refinished my Ottaway, couple years ago I had the cab and boiler lagging, and tender powdercoated at a commercial shop. So far it has held up brilliantly. Used standard, plain ole hi temp engine spray can enamel on the boiler back end and smoke box. These work well also, but must redo every year or two as the loco is coal fired - nothing lasts very well under coal dust, steam overspray and brush scrubbing,,, so just redo every year or so.

But, really like the powdercoat.

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rrnut-2
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Location: New Hampshire

Re: Paint help

Post by rrnut-2 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:30 pm

With the problems that I have had with the "new" Rustoleum, I would recommend staying away from it as well. I painted a customers part with Rustoleum and of course, the side that wasn't hidden peeled. And yes, I did follow their directions. And that wasn't the only time!

Jim B

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Greg_Lewis
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Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Paint help

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:42 pm

That's bad news. I've had acceptable results with R/O in the past. I seem to recall that one of our Chaski members is an auto body expert. I don't remember who that is, but I hope he will see this and jump in.

Glenn:
I've got a Roll Models switcher that was powder coated and it has flaked off in places and not from impact but from poor adhesion. It actually bubbled up from underneath. Perhaps it was just a poorly done job. Touching up such a problem with paint is not easy. You have to build up the surface with filler putty as the powder coat is thicker than a paint coat would be and then try to match the color. R/O colors have, as far as I know, been consistent from batch to batch.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

Kevin S
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Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: Paint help

Post by Kevin S » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:08 pm

Adam, what exactly don't you like about the finishes of the samples you have tried? There is different ways to achieve a satin finish with paint. One way is to add flattening agents into the paint to achieve the level of gloss you are trying to achieve, or shoot it in a base coat clear coat and use a satin clear over the top. I have had good luck using PCL brand. I stay away from Rustoleium paint, it actually never fully dries and uses fish oil in to prevent the rust, also if you spray anything different over it, you will get wrinkles. I use a satin paint at work that is for signs called Matthews Paint it has a nice satin sheen to it.
Also try and use the same paint system from primer to top coat for the best possible adhesion.
-Kevin S.

Glenn Brooks
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Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Paint help

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:30 pm

Gregg,

Yes, we have a local club member who also did a powder coat at home and it flaked off also. From what I’ve learned, the flaking is due to inadequate surface prep. The shop I took my loco to has their own sand blasting location. They sand blast till it’s squeaky clean and bright looking. Can’t remember if they give the parts a chemical wash or not. But remember they said, dont bother derusting or stripping old paint. Waste of time as they always sand blast the surface to bright metal then immediately go into to the coating booth - spray the powder onto the work, bake at 400* F.

If the surface has any oil or residue the powder coating will flake off. Flip side, of the surface is clean you get excellent adhesion and something like 200% flexibility in the coating. The powdercoat material will give and flex up to 200% before chipping or cracking. It acts sort of like thing plastic. For example, I have a couple of serious dents in my tender with the coating still intact.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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Greg_Lewis
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Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Paint help

Post by Greg_Lewis » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:04 pm

Thanks, Glenn. I suspected as much.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

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