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Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:56 am
by Rwilliams
One might want to consider some of the Starrett precision ground oil hardening precision ground flat stock that is on the market. Often short pieces can be found listed on eBay where a portion of the full 24 inch length was used for a job and the remainder is then useless to the original buyer.

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:50 pm
by rhbroehl
Would this material need to be hardened or is it hard enough in the annealed state (I assume that is how it is sold).

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:04 pm
by Harold_V
Like using hot or cold rolled, it can be used in the annealed condition, but heat treating will add considerable life to wear parts, so heat treat is desirable.

For the home shop types, heat treating can be troublesome, due in part to scaling and the normally required quench. Quenching improperly often leads to warped pieces, but there's a reasonable way to avoid that, and that is using "A" type materials (meaning they are air quenched, not oil or water quenched). They are prone to being more stable, so there's not nearly as much distortion in the heat treat process. With this type of material, all that is required is a prolonged soak at the prescribed temperature. Hardening is the result of crystal growth within the material.

H

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:22 pm
by Bill Shields
I am with RWilliams:

my personal choice is a piece of ground to dimension tool steel...

i use whatever I have (air or oil hardening) and leave it in the unhardened state).

i will let you know when i wear a set out....

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:04 pm
by BClemens
Greg_Lewis wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:08 pm


I made my guides from common CRS and after one run around a track I found them to be scored even though they were well lubricated. The crosshead shoes were 660 bearing bronze.
There is a product called "Kasenit" that will harden a piece if mild steel - and the depth of hardened surface depends on the amount of Kasenit compound used during the coating process.(You will need Oxy/Acetylene welding capabilities (torch) for enough heat for kasenit). It's easy to use and will leave a hardened surface that a file will not touch. I have used it many times with grand results. I am blessed with a machine shop in my garage and I am constantly in the shop with my machines. The reason for this admission is that after you use the kasenit you will need to grind a smooth surface on your crosshead guides. I built a Quorn Cutter Grinder years ago and use the grinding head in the vert. mill as a surface grinder. The only problem with this method over a good hardenble steel W1, O1 or A1, is that it is too easy to grind through the hardened surface. But - it can be done without issue. Then your bronze crosshead that can 'charge' will have a much tougher time cutting the guides with the hardened surface.
A benefit of using mild steel and surface hardening it is that you maintain the stability of mild steel. It is less likely to warp during the hardening process as higher carbon content steels do. The mild steel core is not as 'active' as high carbon steel most especially during the quench.
bc

[[[ I am embarrassed and sorry for bringing this up. I did not know that this product has been banned by the US Government. I have a large can of this stuff that I began using about 35 years ago. This is no doubt why at 72 in my retirement, I have an untameable desire to be in my workshop making things - according to the government, I'm brain dead.]]]

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:36 pm
by SteveM
BClemens wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:04 pm
I am embarrassed and sorry for bringing this up. I did not know that this product has been banned by the US Government. I have a large can of this stuff that I began using about 35 years ago. This is no doubt why at 72 in my retirement, I have an untameable desire to be in my workshop making things - according to the government, I'm brain dead.
Not sure if it's one of those cases of "they don't make it like they used to" as with tapping fluid, but you can still get Kasenit:
https://www.travers.com/1lbcan-1-surfac ... 1-003-001/

Steve

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:47 pm
by Bill Shields
I will put my cans of kasenit next to my white lead and cancer causing stainless steel

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:54 pm
by BAdams
Hey Steve, I think the Kasenit company went out of business several years ago. If you scroll down a bit on that link you'll see Travers is selling Cherry Red.

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:38 pm
by blff cty lcmtv wrks
i have built numerous allen moguls and ten wheelers over the years, and i use plain old crs 1/4"x1/2" for the guides. it has been working fine for years. i don't know much about all the numbers that go with the different grades of crs. when i machined the crossheads, i would machine the crosshead a bit oversize and then shim the guides for a running fit. as the guides wear, you can adjust the shims to remove some of the slop that develops as the engine is used. eventually you might have to remove the crossheads to true them up. i haven't noticed much wear on the guides.

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:23 pm
by Soot n' Cinders
One thought Ive had for my half brasses that seems applicable here, what about going the other direction? So a softer bearing material to lower the hardness requirements of the steel. Babbitt is still readily available and seems pretty easy to work with. Its served my Southbend heavy 13 quite well for the last 60+ years, but has anyone tried it in small scale?

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:06 am
by Bill Shields
The problem with babbit is that the thicknesses commonly used do not scale well. Let us not over think this simple solution.

Re: Crosshead Guide Material

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:20 am
by PeterCraymer
PeterCraymer wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:24 am
Often times keystock is plated as well, so that is another thing to look out for. I used 1/4 x 1/2" HRS for my 10-Wheeler and used the stock Allen Models cast bronze crossheads and have no problems after 7 years of running. Sure was nice not having to do much machining on those parts!
This should have read CRS! Oops! Y'all probably wondering what the heck is he talking about! There are too many replies I guess as it won't let me edit it.