Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

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shild
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Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by shild »

Happy new year everyone!

I'm looking for tips on how to dumpster dive for stock to build a 3/4" live steamer or car. I cracked open a printer/scanner combo. Looks like there is a 1/4" round stock in it. Has return springs that could be an option for the reverser. Thought there was going to be a 3/8th round stock I need for an axle but turns out it's a tube. Of course there is the glass I could cut for windows. Another place I found "trailer weight distribution bars" that I could cut with a 4x6 bandsaw but having a very difficult time drilling it. Also found some random 1/8 bar stock but machining it is slow indeed, guess I need to learn to read spark test with a grinder? Have found many things that are easy to machine though. Also found some water heaters have a 7/8 copper overflow tube. Oh yeah, could use the frame rails of a bed someone tosses as rails for a track. What else can I turn junk I can get for free into? Are cast iron barbells good to make any parts from?
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Bill Shields
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by Bill Shields »

???
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by Glenn Brooks »

We have a local metalworking group on line forum in the Seattle area. Often members will announce low cost or free shorts or collections of drops, available to other members. I also monitor Craigslist materials listing and the Free section for random steel. Cast iron barbells aren’t usually good for anything, as they are low grade quick and dirty castings with unknown assorted recycled steel and often contain quantities of sand from the casting process - ruins your cutting blades in short order.

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pete
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by pete »

Personally I wouldn't trust any copper scrap that is going to have steam pressure on it. And bed rails? I learned more than I wanted to just trying to drill them. It's just about worthless in a home shop. I can't afford any free material that's going to burn up more in tools than just buying the correct material to start with. I've probably collected up well over a ton or two of brass, bronze and mild steel from various work places. Tbh most of it is ok for building fixtures or simple non critical tooling items. Free metal is wonderful and I don't turn it down if I think it might be of use. But you also have to understand when it's time to open your wallet and buy known good material with the built in properties your parts might require. Some cast iron is just fine, others like counter weights, window sash weights can sometimes but not always have chilled areas because the foundry didn't care if ended up chilled or not. It was good enough for it's intended purpose. There's also other metals that aren't designed to be machinable. I thought I scored a bunch of aluminum bar stock one time. Nothing I tried for speeds, feeds, cutting oil or tool angles would work. All it did was tear instead of cut. I've yet to ever hear anyone say machining was a cheap hobby, it isn't at any level. One of the important lessons anyone doing this needs to realize is that metals and those critical parts have engineering requirements suited to that parts specific use. Even then there no such thing as a perfect material for any part. It's at best a series of compromises towards getting as close as possible to good enough. If you do understand that then the less likely you are to make mistakes using scrap with completely unknown quality's. Real machine shops use material that comes with guaranteed certifications for multiple good reasons.
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Dick_Morris
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by Dick_Morris »

I've collected all kinds of scrap over the years. If it looks like it might be usable I pick it up. However, I've also thrown a lot away or just left it in the dumpster. Only experience will tell you what is worth having. A good dumpster is becoming much harder to find than it was 30-40 years ago.

The parts in a printer are metric and the shafts are often hardened which makes them not very usable.

Most painted steel sheet around 18 to 20 gauge (file cabinets, etc.) is galvanized, which doesn't accept paint very well. I try to leave it in the dumpster unless I have an appropriate use for it.

I pretty much avoid any hot dip galvanized material. It's not healthy to weld, has an ugly finish and doesn't accept paint well.

Square and rectangular steel tubing and sometimes aluminum tubing can be useful. I scored several big reels that fiber optic cable came on when they were installing it in my area, cut them up, and put them in a stack in the shed. I have been eating away at the stack for about 30 years. The longest salvageable piece was 44" and some is bent, has holes it or welded areas, but the price was right. It is 1-1/4 by .060" wall. I use it as is or cut it lengthwise on the band saw for angle or channel for rolling stock and tender frame material.

Powder coating is difficult to remove.

The stainless fronts of dishwashers and doors for refrigerators isn't the easiest to form and isn't very thick but I plan on using it for my tender with adequate internal bracing/baffles.

It's generally not advisable to use cast iron weights, there is often a lot of trash in it. However, I used weights from a weight machine for the pistons in my American. It machined with no problems. It just depends on what scrap went into the pot that day. I believe some weights are zinc alloy instead of iron.

A 3/4" scale locomotive doesn't use a lot of material compared to 1-1/2" scale. Save yourself the aggravation and spend a few dollars for decent material.

Use care when buying material at the box stores. Some is OK, some is junk.

Get into a network of people with similar interests. It's all too frequent that people are have to give up their shops and will be getting rid of tools and materials. Don't expect to get it for free, but make a fair offer for their stash of material.

Despite all my scrap collecting, most of the metal I have was purchased. It's easier to use, cleaner, and I don't have to spend $10 on milling cutters to save $5 on material.
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by VGC »

When you are young, you have possibility to save a little bit money by spending lots of more time e.g. using scrap material.
When you are getting older, you have much less time, and you will notice that you cannot buy back your lifetime that you had wasted by desperately trying to turn scrap into something useful instead of gaining experience by efficiently creating useful things.
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tsph6500
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by tsph6500 »

Our hobby was born from scrap metal.

I own several locomotives built as early as the 1920s to the 1970s and those early ones were built entirely from "scrap". No one bought shiny new metal for a hobby during the Great Depression or WWII. So we know it can be done and done safely when it comes to copper boilers.

Scrap metal comes in two types… used and cut-offs & surplus. They are easy to tell apart. No need to burn up tools, use a file to test for hardness. If something doesn't machine well, stop machining it.

The questions is do you want to go through the process of sourcing free metal? Perhaps you have no choice because of the high cost of new metal.

I'm a scrounger and have been fortunate to get a lot of good materials from a high school shop that closed, a friend/club member who works at a tool & die shop, a fellow car guy who bought a fabricating/machine shop who did a massive "clean-up", older & deceased club members, local metal recyclers, and so on.

For the past year, I've been making fixtures and tooling for a local CNC sheet metal shop and helping bring a product from production in China to Canada and the amount of "scrap" from the punch presses is an amazing and unlimited source of material for me. I throw tons per week into the 20-foot dumpster. I can't possibly use it all.

So look around your local area and talk to people about your hobby. Some will tell you to buzz off, some will be interested. Don't take anything without permission. Be modest and polite.

Buy virgin metal when you need to such as bearing bronze and copper. put your money towards good carbide tools, silver solder, and acetylene, etc.
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gwrdriver
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by gwrdriver »

One of the first lessons my first mentor taught me was to be very careful of "scrap" material of unknown alloy and origin. Although I never sustained a substantial loss of money, time, or tools on account of it, I did learn the hard way that "scrap" should be avoided unless what it is is known or OBVIOUS. Yes, I found my share of gummy aluminum, un-drillable steel, and glass-hard cast iron.

When I began in the hobby (mid-1960s) scrap yards (and material) were easy to access, meaning that you could walk onto the yard (or shed) and pick up material by the Pound. A local tool & die supply had bins of "drops" of all kinds of steel, exactly identified, for 10¢ a Pound. Those days are gone, locally anyway. My last metals source was a local roofing & sheet metal shop with which I did some commercial business. The shop foreman knew of my hobby activities so he allowed me to walk in and pick from anything laying on the floor under the big shear. One day I stopped by to see what might be under the shear, and there was nothing. And there continued to be nothing. The Company had contracted with an independent recycling company to pick up ALL drops and scrap.

In days past I found that it often helped to take along a piece of your work, or the object you're having trouble finding materials for, and engage the foreman for help. Never demand, you are in no position to demand anything, just ask for help, but DO ASK before any metal is cut or offered, how much it will cost. The other thing I found you must never do is say that your need has anything whatsoever to do with a "boiler." Connection in anyway with an amateur attempt at a boiler can potentially carry liabilities for a commercial shop and in most cases they'll no longer be willing to offer help.
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BClemens
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by BClemens »

The OS for making scrap out of scrap material is just as loud as with 'new' material. I buy my future scrap from McMaster-Carr, MSC, OnLineMetals, etc..
SteveM
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by SteveM »

You should put your location in your profile.

People in your area might know good scrap yards where you can get small quantities for cheap. We have several good ones here.

One supplier here has lots of small stuff ready to be picked. Just about any size/shape/material.

One of the large steel suppliers (the ones that supply I-beams for construction) has a "bargain barn" where you can find all sorts of stuff, including rounds that were the holes from either water jet or EDM cutting. A lot easier to use one of those than to cut off slices from 6" bar stock.

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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by tetramachine »

I have bought a lot of material from ebay. Drops, odd stuff and "stated known" alloy. Although it is often mystery metal, and fails to machine as well as its supposed alloy.

Second choice is a company called Yarde Metal in CT, and NY. They have an online site that has a "drop zone" From them the alloy has always been right, and prices very good. The selection is always changing, so you have to pay retail from them. At that they are competitive with Online Metal, Speedy Metals, MSC, Mcmaster. Forget bed frames, scrapped printers not worth the effort.
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AnthonyDuarte
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Re: Could I get tips on dumpster diving for materials for your build?

Post by AnthonyDuarte »

When it comes to material, there's a lot to be said for knowing what you're getting.

You've posted quite a lot on this board about speeding up your procedures in the shop. Having a variety of alloys in various sizes and shapes is one sure way to maximize your shop time. Rather than scrounging dumpsters and scrap yards to find something that might work, and then realizing you have to order what you need anyway and waiting 1-3 days to get, you can walk in the shop and pick something off the shelf. Even better when you know exactly what alloy it is.

Getting to that point takes time. When you embark on a part for your locomotive, buy suitable material and buy more than you need. I've learned the hard way never to buy exactly the right amount of material, because it's a sure way to guarantee you'll make a mistake and need another chunk of metal. And buy enough that you'll have some left on the shelf. It's certainly a pricier route to go, but in a few years you'll get to a point where you rarely need to buy material or tear apart 3D printers for a piece of round stock. You'll already have it.

Anthony
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