best way to get started?

[PilotBug]

Pilotbug:
Keep us posted on your progress.

Got.
So... I am gonna start with a small G scale kit (probably accucraft) as it would be cheaper, and more entry level. Problem is that I currently do not have the money, So I am gonna save up.
that or buy a G scale locomotive second hand, or a stationary kit

[Greg_Lewis]

Good Idea, PB. Also take a look at the PM Research kits. These little stationary engines are a hoot. Inexpensive ($55 for the little wobbler) and they can be run on air, so you don't need to mess with a boiler. I'd think your shop teacher would be quite amenable to seeing you do one of these. https://www.pmmodelengines.com

Also consider making some of your own tools as I mentioned before.

Regardless, when you start a build, put up a thread here in the build log sub-forum so we can watch your progress.

[FKreider]

Pilotbug:
Keep us posted on your progress.

Got.
So... I am gonna start with a small G scale kit (probably accucraft) as it would be cheaper, and more entry level. Problem is that I currently do not have the money, So I am gonna save up.
that or buy a G scale locomotive second hand, or a stationary kit

If I could go back 10+ years I would have bought a cheapo mini lathe (Yes the ones that everyone tells you are worthless) and I would have started to learn how to machine basic parts and tools. Then when I had the space and money I would have upgraded to larger machines and had a really solid foundation to continue building skills on.

Instead I waited 10 years and bought a full size milling machine and 14" lathe and had no idea how to make any accurate parts on either. Sure I had a shop with full size machines but I didn't know how to grind a lathe tool, etc.

I really wish I had ignored the naysayers and bought the cheapo benchtop equipment and had fun with it. I've seen some very nice models that were made with only a Sherline lathe and mill.

[Harold_V]

Interesting comment, F. I agree whole heartedly. Especially the thought on how to grind a lathe tool. Those who lack that skill have little idea how badly they are held captive by the lack of ability to do so. Interestingly, it's not all that hard to do, but it does require some practice and understanding in order for one to achieve success.

It is my opinion that nothing sets one free more than the ability to understand how and why a tool cuts, along with the ability to fashion the tool.

That said, there is no substitute for experience. One can read endlessly, but until chips are made, skills are not created. Learning the basics on inexpensive equipment is a great idea, plus it provides a sense of direction for future purchases, answering questions that arise as one gains experience.

H

[Greg_Lewis]

Be careful, however. Sometimes the cheap tool is nothing more than frustration. I learned how to cuss from my dad, because he always bought cheap and got angry when the thing didn't work. In my other hobby, astronomy, there are telescopes sold in big box stores that we call "hobby killers," because they are poorly designed and made, and scores of them bought as Christmas presents end up in the garage or thrift store because they just aren't up to the task, and the owner has become frustrated and given up on the hobby.

[Harold_V]

I agree with Greg, too. The level of frustration experienced by the guy who knows little about machining is exacerbated by using inferior machine tools. Much like trying to do tenths work using a caliper (be it vernier, dial or digital). It's extremely difficult to do precision work when the machine or measuring instrument isn't up to the task, but by the same token a person with no experience will struggle, even with quality equipment, due to lack of experience. On the positive side, if one can conquer the challenges of inferior equipment, the transition to better quality is a joy, to say nothing of being far more meaningful, because you have a clue now! I experienced that very thing when I was an apprentice. A very difficult job was made easy simply because I requested the use of a better lathe than the Cincinnati Traytop I was operating. That was my introduction to a Monarch EE. A truly mind-numbing experience by contrast.

Mean time, back at the ranch, getting basic experience on inferior machine tools has advantages. One of them is when you have a crash (and you most likely will), the loss is of little consequence. Cheap machines have their place.

Some folks tend to lose track of the idea that a poor lathe is far better than no lathe. A clapped out mill usually beats a file, hands down.

Just sayin'

H

[Steamer Al]

The nice thing with the cheap mini lathes/mills is there is a pile of accessories available to make them into decent little machines. That is exactly what I'm doing- got a mini-mill on order that will start me off, and I plan to buy a few accessories as money permits and a couple home built ones as well. For me, its cheap machines or no machines!

[Greg_Lewis]

The issue, however, is that the beginner may not be able to tell the difference between inexpensive but acceptable quality and junk. There are trustworthy sources that sell low-priced gear and there are sources that sell crap. That's where forums such as this show their value as those of us who have been around the block a few times can advise. Unfortunately, some folks believe the marketing hype and end up disappointed.

So should PB decide to buy machinery, I hope he'll check with us first and give us a chance to steer him toward good decisions.

[kcameron]

One comment I'd make about the PM models, they give the right amount of challenge. They don't give you instructions, they give you drawings of the parts and an assembly print. You have to figure out which way you want to make each of those parts from the stock or castings provided. There may be more than one way to do it. You might pick different ways depending on the tools you have and what you know.

This is a prime comparison to most of the items in a model train build. The drawings tell the what (and some better than others) but not the how. You got to see which way you want to attack the tasks yourself. Granted for both there are some YouTube and other sources to help guide a bit but a whole lot of it depends on you. In this respect the PM kits work well for somebody who wants to build their own someday. It is also a good place to start and allow some customizing or practice. Replacement castings can be had when you mess up. That's not always something you have available in the train models.

[gwrdriver]

If I could go back 10+ years I would have bought a cheapo mini lathe (Yes the ones that everyone tells you are worthless) and I would have started to learn how to machine basic parts and tools. [snip] I really wish I had ignored the naysayers.

Among the many things my cheapo mini-lathe (an original Unimat ca.1963) taught me as a beginner was what its limits were. I found it would do certain things well enough . . . but was incapable of doing many others. That was a valuable lesson to learn.

That realization added to my "experience", such as it was at that time, and I could begin to educate myself, with the help of a mentor, about what machine WOULD do what I needed it to do and, when money and a place finally appeared, go looking for one of those. As my experience accumulated, and my model-building horizon broadened, what I needed to do my work changed and in response several lathes, from 3" to 12", came in my workshop door. Each in turn was used and evaluated, and if a better alternative was found, was replaced. In the end a well-made 10" lathe suited all of my needs.

I also agree with Fred, . . . ignore those who say you can't do anything without a 14" lathe and a Bridgeport. They're wrong. If you do large scale work as a matter of course then the larger machine capacity could be justified, but when the majority of someone's project work could be carried out on a 6" lathe they shouldn't be saddled with a 14" machine, just because someone else thinks they ought to have it.

[Greg_Lewis]

I think the Unimat is a well-designed and well-made machine, albeit for small work. There is a difference between that and junk. I am reminded of a recent request from the advisor to the robotics club at a local high school to pay them a visit and take a look at their lathe, which they were having trouble with. It only took me a moment to see that the administration had bought the lowest-priced lathe of that size they could find (lowest bidder?). It was an Asian import that was poorly designed and poorly made. The drive was way under-powered for its swing and the fit of many of the parts was poor. I tuned it up as best as I could and it does work, but not without inconveniences and frustrations.

[Bill Shields]

Unimat big brothers are not bad machines....