The Future of 3/4" Scale - Questions

[mattmason]

OK, I've seen my name come up twice now, so thought I would chime in.

I do have a 1" scale home railway, and that was the start of The Home Railway Journal. (Side note for subscribers, the next issue it is at the printer now.)

Many, if not most, home railways are 1" scale or smaller. But there is a lot of 1.5 and even 2.5" scale railways that are around the home or in the back yard. size is what you have of it.

Everyone must realize that there are downsides to EVERY scale. There are also definate advantages to EVERY scale. There is no one perfect size. I outlined a few of the pros and cons in "The Basics" series I ran a few years ago, and you can read the size comparison article at http://www.homerailwayjournal.com/Home_ ... eprint.pdf and pass it on if you like.

The worst thing this hobby can have are what I call "gauge snobs." Yes, there are some that we all know. It's the "if it isn't X scale, then its worthless." These gauge snobs exist in all scales, even the smaller sizes. It is very similar to a wine snob who will only drink a fine, French Champagne. There is a whole bunch of great sparkling wines that would be missed.

The fact is that we all don't have the money or space to have larger stuff. Bill, you worked hard in your life (some of it in the armed forces, thank you for that) to have a place where you can just park a trailer with your trains in it and walk away. But that doesn't mean that people in my situation (mid-thirties, small home lot, working man's job, wife and two kids to raise) should not have the opportunity to participate in live steam and have my own train. Another well-respected member of this board just finished a 1" scale electric in his CONDO, and did so because he does not live in a house. Should he be excluded from the hobby?

I am very fortunate to have an Allen Chloe and West Valley 1.5" scale electric to take to tracks if I want. But the trains I want to run and build are just too heavy for my liking in 7.5" gauge. (Ever seen the room a streamlined passenger car takes up?) Plus, I can't run them at my home.

I made my personal prefered modeling choice of 1" scale -- because it fits ME. Our collective choices may be different, and each for a different reason. All for probably some good reasons at that.

But we are all in the same hobby together. It takes the same basic skills to build or run a 1/2" scale model as it does a 3 3/4" scale loco. It's just too bad we don't all recognize that.

Matt Mason
Editor
The Home Railway Journal
www.homerailwayjournal.com

[B&OBob]

Matt,

In a word, Amen!

Bob

[steamisgood]

By the way, that is remarkable that you built that BEAUTIFUL 1" electric in your home Bob, I congratulate you for that. (toot toot)
-John Kane

[JR May]

Thought I'd throw in a few comments here. I would like to commend John for bringing back the Friends/Yankee product line. I realize what an investment that has been. Unfortunately I have learned that I am a lousy machinist. Yes, the truth hurts (me at least), but that is why I would really prefer to buy machined parts rather than just rough castings.

Would also like to thank Matt Mason for at least making me aware of the Home Railway Journal. I guess I had heard of it but really thought it covered larger gauges. I will take another look as a result of this discussion.

I tend to believe the future of the smaller scales can be tied to a decent magazine. Live Steam certainly is not it these days. Why is Gauge 1 so popular these days? There's some darn good magazines covering garden railroading and G1 in general. Check out G1MRA on the web some time for an outstanding magazine and organization.

I found the popularity of Kozo designs some what surprising within this discussion. Back before I realized my machine shop short comings, I had always thought I'd build a Kozo shay. Why did I feel that way? I really don't know, but I think the Kozo comments should be of interest to John and to the smaller scale side to this hobby. Maybe what we need is a Kozo-like book written around the building of a Friends/Yankee locomotive. With Live Steam no longer doing the long serial articles, exposure to such concepts may be dead for ever.

So, to summarize, I would suggest the following:

1) If Yankee/Friends can not offer a machined set of parts, then lets see what we can do about getting a modern Kozo-like book written covering the construction of a Yankee/Friends product. Its also another source of income.

2) If Live Steam won't do it, then lets get a darn good magazine going that covers the smaller scales. Matt's effort may cover this but some long running serial articles might be nice.

3) I tend to wonder if a G1MRA membership may be useful for 4.75, 3.5, and 2.5 inch gauges. Get togethers are organized and covered. Insurance issues are covered. Questions are covered. Product reviews provided.

4) Exposure. I discovered live steam from a Little Engines ad in Model Railroad magazine.

I think the above would do a lot for the mid gauge runners and for people like John trying keep the older designs available.

J.R. May

[Rwilliams]

I would have to agree that having a magazine that supported the smaller gauges would be a wonderful incentive to encourage such scales. I can remember years ago when I saw one of the very early issues of Live Steam in a local hobby shop. There was a serialized article included on the construction of a Gene Allen Mogul. I did not know a thing about machine work but realized that such a magazine would help to educate me in the hobby of my future.

Unfortunately, the hobby shop owner found so few interested in the copies of Live Steam that it was quickly removed from the magazine rack in a few months time. Then it was back to the standard offerings of Model Railroader and Trains Magazine.

It would be another 7 or more years before I saw my next issue of Live Steam and by that time, I was not going to let a hobby shop owner influence my goals in life ever again. Based on my experience, a good magazine should have a equal amount of support from the hobby shops so the railroad interested public could have at least a chance to sample more of what is out there and perhaps to help take the smaller scales from obscurity back to major players in our hobby.

Advertising in the major model magazines would certainly help to reach potential small scale builders. The option of the internet will certainly help to spread the word. A good builder/author of a popular common design steamer would go a long way towards stimulation of interest. The use of CNC parts and lost wax casting details would also kick start the smaller gauges. With a small gauge engine, you can display it indoors as part of the home and enjoy looking at it every day. Just having friends over for a visit could help to spread the word.

I have a small 1.5 narrow-gauge shay that operates on 1 inch scale track that resides in the house on a display stand. I get some interesting comments on my house decor and none of it has been negative. Nothing wrong with some eye candy when you sit in the kick -back chair and the even news is filled with doom/gloom and way too many commercials.

Robert

[pockets]

Robert and JR and other interrested parties. You may, or may not, know that all of our hobby publications are contributor driven. Just like the forums. What you see in them is what was submitted. If you would like to see a specific topic published, click out of your browser and open your Word program. Write it up and send it in. This makes you a teacher. Something I learned, in emergency services,, was that if you REALLY want to learn a subject, teach it! By the time you've edited your own work a few times, you will KNOW the subject. Then send it in, get money, famous and your work punched full of holes by people who REALLY know what you are talking about.... Another learning experience.

As editors go, Clover has the least used blue pencil in the business. If she will publish my drivel she will surely publish yours.

The simple math of it is that, if we get too subdivided, there won't be enough support for any magazine. I have yet to stumble across Home Railway Journal at a news stand, so I can't comment on it (I won't subscribe to a product that I haven't seen). I have been reading Live Steam since 1973, I've only done three articles and a guest editorial, but they made me feel part of something. Just ask Dave, or Bill S., or Jesse L.. I currently have three articles in production, why not join me? I model in 3-3/4" scale and 7/8n2, so I know where you're at.

Greg B.

[Steve Bratina]

There is an old saying that I think went something like this,

ASK NOT WHAT 3/4" SCALE CAN DO FOR YOU.
ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR 3/4" SCALE.

I'm not sure where I heard it but he must have been a high liner.

Steve

[JR May]

Greg:
I could not agree more as to the splintering we have seen in the magazines. I would much rather read a thicker issue of Live Steam that covers, on a regular basis, a broader range of topics versus subscribing to several magazines to cover my interests in Gauge 1, 3.5" gauge, park trains, and full size steam.

As to moving from the MS browser to Word and creating some articles, I write for a living and its the last thing I want to do when I get home at night. And I'm not real sure what I'd write about anyway.

J.R.

[DennisC]

As some one has mentioned, Gauge 1 live steam has had an explosive growth. One does not ride behind Gauge 1 locos! Our club has both 7.5 and Gauge 1 and I tend to associate with both. THey come from different worlds. The Gauge 1ers enjoy SEEING their locos operate and with R/C can operate them as well. There are people building 7/8"n2 locos (larger then 3/4" scale).

Now my feeling is new people to 3 1/2" will come from the garden railway arena. Frankly, building gauge 1 is a little watch building, but 3/4" becomes easier. The availability of the 7x10 lathes and minimills means a person could put together a machine shop inexpensively for this size. What the 3/4" scale needs is an Americanized Tich built from raw stock. Kozo's A3 is great, but there are a lot of fussy parts. It becomes more of a mantle piece.

I have been talking up 3 1/2" at my club and several people with locos in their closet have expressed interest. What we need is the design of a portable track that we could put up and generate the interest.

[Oilcan]

JR and Pockets have hit on the biggest hang-up... material to publish. None of the VP magazines (or Matt) can print something that they do not have. That's where the builder can help the cause. Take the time to set up your camera, take some notes, scribble up a sketch and send them in. The magazine can do the wordsmithing and redraw the sketch but it cannot create your article nor take your photos. I know that means your project will take longer, maybe much longer, to finish however your efforts will be appreciated by your peers and future builders.

I've wondered just how much impact regulations (state boiler laws) and litigation (latest results from the Stemen debacle) will have upon the riding-sized outdoor railroad. When these matters take the fun out of the hobby, maybe it's time to look at the G1 stuff. You can still smell the hot oil, hear the steam, burn a finger or two and enjoy some fraternity camaraderie. Will the smaller scales stay below the regulator's radar?

Neil

[Benjamin Maggi]

"...I can remember years ago when I saw one of the very early issues of Live Steam in a local hobby shop. There was a serialized article included on the construction of a Gene Allen Mogul..."


I wonder if you mean a construction series on building a Railroad Supply Mogul from 1996-1997. I have been looking to see if a series was done on building Allen moguls and found nothing aside from individual articles. Was a serial ever done for Allen moguls?

[JBodenmann]

I have seen some what of a revival of the smaller scales here on the west coast. Back in the 1980's I would attend meets at LALS to run my
7-1/2" gauge Atlantic. I would wander over to the 4-3/4" and 3-1/2" gauge track and was saddened by the weeds growing between the rails the rotten ties and complete lack of equipment. Not one loco. Occasionally Jack Sessums or Doug Alkire would be running something. Along came Mr. and Mrs. Berg (hope I spelled that right). The Bergs are an elderly couple and they started working on the small track. It's amazing what a couple people can do, The next thing you know there was a small group working on the track. They both shamed people into helping and also whipped up enthusiasm for the little track. I have since been to LALS to run my 4-3/4" gauge shay when there wasn't an empty steaming bay. Sometimes all it takes is a spark plug. The small scale track is where I spend my time during my visits to LALS.
I must also really must commend John K for his efforts to revive the Yankee Workshop line. John has put an incredible amount of time and money into this project. I hope to build one of his engines some day. I am mainly a builder, and consider running secondary, and mainly a social activity. I like looking at things people have made and then chatting with the builders themselves. I find that the ratio of builders to buyers much higher in the smaller scales. Any building that I do for myself in the future will probably be in 1" or 3/4"scale. And I must say that if I had the room around my house I would be out there right now building an elevated track for 4-3/4" and 3-1/2"gauge. I look at the old photos of dignified gentlemen running their tiny locomotives dressed in their suits and ties and think to myself what a wonderful simpler time. I would like to re live a bit of that, perhaps a small scale suit and tie meet.....
Too Much Fun!
Jack