The Louisville accident prompts me to wonder about what safety programs exist at our various clubs. While we carry on about wheel standards, boilers and safety chains, what is being done about the human factor?
I do NOT refer to public-hauling runs. Many clubs seem to have some sort of control over who runs those. What I wonder about is the guy who puts out cash for a steamer, gets his boiler hydroed, hops on and takes off. How does anyone know if he knows what he's doing? How do we know if he knows what his gauge glass is for?
So the question is: what, if anything, does your club do to insure that engineers know how to operate safely?
Do any clubs have safety exams for engineers?
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Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3016
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Do any clubs have safety exams for engineers?
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
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Mike Walsh
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- Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:14 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
At the Wabash Frisco and Pacific, we have a testing officer, who will test all crews - brakemen, conductors, engineers (both steam and diesel - two different tests), hostlers. The engineers' test was approx 6 pages of answers, and brakemen's test was like 4 pages. Then there are also road tests that will essentially certify the position for that person. If the engineer is new to the road operation, then there will be a tag-along engineer (riding on the tender with engineer) that will instruct the general technique for road operations to help them learn and feel confident on the road...
Mike
Mike
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Rich_Carlstedt
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- Location: Green Bay Wisconsin USA
- Contact:
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Trainman4602
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- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:26 pm
- Location: New Jersey
As far as testing engineers at clubs.
One thing I know is on the full size you have to qualify on the section of the railroad that you will run on. That is to say you have to know every switch and signal between the points of your running territory. Keith Taylor may be able to answer that better.
As far as the actual running of the locomotive the engineer should not have to be told how to operate it. By this time he should know that, after all he has earned the title of engineer.
It shouldn’t be any different with clubs. When I attend a meet of a club that I haven’t been to before, I will ask some that is a member about the railroad. Or I will ride on another train first to familiarize my self with the track and signals if they have them.
I really don’t need to take some written test.
To address the question of someone that as enough money to buy a steam locomotive and not know how to run it.
I have never come across that problem usually a newbie will ask someone to help them or they have some experience running someone locomotive. I like to give neophytes a chance to see what steam is all about.
That is what this hobby should be about learning from others. That’s how I learned. I knew nothing 40 years ago. Someone taught me about the locomotive and then I built one.
One thing I know is on the full size you have to qualify on the section of the railroad that you will run on. That is to say you have to know every switch and signal between the points of your running territory. Keith Taylor may be able to answer that better.
As far as the actual running of the locomotive the engineer should not have to be told how to operate it. By this time he should know that, after all he has earned the title of engineer.
It shouldn’t be any different with clubs. When I attend a meet of a club that I haven’t been to before, I will ask some that is a member about the railroad. Or I will ride on another train first to familiarize my self with the track and signals if they have them.
I really don’t need to take some written test.
To address the question of someone that as enough money to buy a steam locomotive and not know how to run it.
I have never come across that problem usually a newbie will ask someone to help them or they have some experience running someone locomotive. I like to give neophytes a chance to see what steam is all about.
That is what this hobby should be about learning from others. That’s how I learned. I knew nothing 40 years ago. Someone taught me about the locomotive and then I built one.
When you visit the Maricopa live steamers, there is a brief (5 minute) mandatory safety briefing that explains how their signal system works and why you need to obey it to prevent an accident.
Other than that, I think that the general cost of getting into the hobby has acted as a barrier to entry that keeps most of the really nutty people out. (read: most
) Usually when you spend that much money or that much time on something, you're very careful to operate it correctly. Live steamers are usually technically inclined by nature, which is what draws them to the hobby, even if they know nothing in the beginning, they learn. (I think the phrase "mechanically sympathetic" that someone mentioned in the zoo train thread applies)
I've only seen one situation where someone was a maniac on the track after excitedly buying their first steamer RTR, but they have since calmed down very much and now run like the rest of us and are still in the hobby. Not before they ruined a perfectly good steam engine by over-firing and under-watering, but they learned their lesson.
The point of all that being it seems like it is a rare enough occurrence that safety training for general running mostly hasn't been necessary, and the occasional individual for whom safety lessons would be necessary are dealt with accordingly, even if that includes not being asked back or banned from a track.
That isn't to say it's not a good idea, but momentum-wise, it seems like it hasn't come up enough to warrant it in most places.
I do agree with Trainman regarding familiarization with a track, if your head is buried in a coal burner and you're completely unfamiliar with a track, that's a recipe for disaster, or at least heading in a direction that you don't want to go in.
I'm headed up to Train Mountain in a week for the first time, and I've been going over the map PDF a lot. The first thing I am going to do is take my friend's battery speeder around for familiarization. A lot easier to pay attention when you just have a single knob to turn and no train.
Other than that, I think that the general cost of getting into the hobby has acted as a barrier to entry that keeps most of the really nutty people out. (read: most
) Usually when you spend that much money or that much time on something, you're very careful to operate it correctly. Live steamers are usually technically inclined by nature, which is what draws them to the hobby, even if they know nothing in the beginning, they learn. (I think the phrase "mechanically sympathetic" that someone mentioned in the zoo train thread applies)I've only seen one situation where someone was a maniac on the track after excitedly buying their first steamer RTR, but they have since calmed down very much and now run like the rest of us and are still in the hobby. Not before they ruined a perfectly good steam engine by over-firing and under-watering, but they learned their lesson.
The point of all that being it seems like it is a rare enough occurrence that safety training for general running mostly hasn't been necessary, and the occasional individual for whom safety lessons would be necessary are dealt with accordingly, even if that includes not being asked back or banned from a track.
That isn't to say it's not a good idea, but momentum-wise, it seems like it hasn't come up enough to warrant it in most places.
I do agree with Trainman regarding familiarization with a track, if your head is buried in a coal burner and you're completely unfamiliar with a track, that's a recipe for disaster, or at least heading in a direction that you don't want to go in.
I'm headed up to Train Mountain in a week for the first time, and I've been going over the map PDF a lot. The first thing I am going to do is take my friend's battery speeder around for familiarization. A lot easier to pay attention when you just have a single knob to turn and no train.
Live Steam Photography and more - gallery.mikemassee.com
Product Development and E-Commerce, Allen Models of Nevada
Product Development and E-Commerce, Allen Models of Nevada
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willy
Adirondack Live Steamers used to have a questionaire that you had to fill out. As well as requiring visiting engineers to have a club member ride with them to verify that they could control their loco in ALS's track.
LALS required any engineer that was to operate a "club" loco, had a class for aspiring engineers to pass to show ability to run club equipment.
LALS required any engineer that was to operate a "club" loco, had a class for aspiring engineers to pass to show ability to run club equipment.
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Benjamin Maggi
- Posts: 1409
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:38 pm
- Location: Albany, NY
We still have a test, and I think we still use "pilots" for new members as part of their engineering certification.willy wrote:Adirondack Live Steamers used to have a questionaire that you had to fill out. As well as requiring visiting engineers to have a club member ride with them to verify that they could control their loco in ALS's track.
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"
Dave is correct, most of the time I spent being tested as an engineer was on the physical characteristics of the territory over which I wished to become qualified.I remember when I first qualified over the Lehigh Valley RR's mainline. The Rules examiner sat me down and wanted to know every break in the rail, whether or not it was a facing point or trailing point switch, the names of the road crossings, stations and most importantly, what the grades were like. Also the location of the signals and interlockings. Whether or not a signal was an automatic or home signal, and which signals were "grade signals." He started by having me pretend I was standing on the car float bridges on the Hudson River, and take him west giving every detail between the river and Lehighton, Pennsylvania. Four hours later I sighed in relief as we had made it to Lehighton. He then said..."okay, now cross over to the eastbound track and take me back to Jersey City!"Trainman4602 wrote:As far as testing engineers at clubs.
One thing I know is on the full size you have to qualify on the section of the railroad that you will run on. That is to say you have to know every switch and signal between the points of your running territory. Keith Taylor may be able to answer that better.
Keith
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GeoStoudenmire
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:49 pm
- Location: Greenville, SC
Test for RR
Fred,
CSME has a test on their web site with their operating guidlines. They are brief, but make you think. I hope that the links come through.
Here is the guidlines, http://www.sn3.org/eprr/EPRR-Guidelines.htm
Here is the test, http://www.sn3.org/eprr/EPRR-Guidelines-exam.htm
Remember that safety should be our first priorty.
Geo.
CSME has a test on their web site with their operating guidlines. They are brief, but make you think. I hope that the links come through.
Here is the guidlines, http://www.sn3.org/eprr/EPRR-Guidelines.htm
Here is the test, http://www.sn3.org/eprr/EPRR-Guidelines-exam.htm
Remember that safety should be our first priorty.
Geo.
Have A Great, Safe, and Fun Day!
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willy
The Adirondack Live Steamers test
http://www.adirondacklivesteamers.org/Test/
Wife on her test on comments put in "Reason for joining, to see all the engineers smiles*"
*Note, not the grins on faces.
http://www.adirondacklivesteamers.org/Test/
Wife on her test on comments put in "Reason for joining, to see all the engineers smiles*"
*Note, not the grins on faces.