The Future of Live Steaming

[tsph6500]

The future of live steaming is quite simply YOU.

We have no control over the other guy be he in the same club as us or running a CNC milling machine in a foreign country. We only have control over our own decisions, passions and available time.

If YOU want a boxcar at cost... build it.

Need a track in your area? Start or join a club and build it.

If you want castings, make patterns and pour them. It's all been done before hundreds of times by the pioneers of our hobby. Obviously not everyone is going to build a small home foundry, not everybody did in the 1930s and 40s but it was not uncommon. Those who did would pour a few extra sets and sell them to fellow club members or steamers at Meets. That's where lots of 'business' was conducted and ideas were exchanged.

The old guys weren't all mechanics and machinists by trade. They were talented but no more talented than you and me. They just wanted it more than us. Our society is based on the 'easy button' mentality.

There's far too much catalogue shopping today. Of course that is expensive. You're paying for a guy's living and expenses instead of using your own hobby time. Hobby time = free time.

The future is not a long line of disinterested public passengers looking for an afternoon's amusement. It is not in a catalogue or an online store. It is you and me who are willing to invest the time and hard work that this hobby demands. That's what makes it so deliciously rewarding, when your locomotive runs well, along the tracks that you help build and maintain. And do us all a favour, personally introduce a friend to your hobby, one at a time.

That's my 1.97¢ Canadian...

[Andypullen]

The future of live steaming is quite simply YOU.

We have no control over the other guy be he in the same club as us or running a CNC milling machine in a foreign country. We only have control over our own decisions, passions and available time.

If YOU want a boxcar at cost... build it.

Need a track in your area? Start or join a club and build it.

If you want castings, make patterns and pour them. It's all been done before hundreds of times by the pioneers of our hobby. Obviously not everyone is going to build a small home foundry, not everybody did in the 1930s and 40s but it was not uncommon. Those who did would pour a few extra sets and sell them to fellow club members or steamers at Meets. That's where lots of 'business' was conducted and ideas were exchanged.

The old guys weren't all mechanics and machinists by trade. They were talented but no more talented than you and me. They just wanted it more than us. Our society is based on the 'easy button' mentality.

There's far too much catalogue shopping today. Of course that is expensive. You're paying for a guy's living and expenses instead of using your own hobby time. Hobby time = free time.

The future is not a long line of disinterested public passengers looking for an afternoon's amusement. It is not in a catalogue or an online store. It is you and me who are willing to invest the time and hard work that this hobby demands. That's what makes it so deliciously rewarding, when your locomotive runs well along the tracks that you help build and maintain. And personally introduce a friend to your hobby, one at a time.

That's my 1.97¢ Canadian...

Well put Jim. I couldn't agree more.

Besides, making patterns will help keep some foundries open...I'm making patterns for a couple of projects right now...

Andy Pullen

[tburzio]

I disagree. Courteously.

[bcody]

Tburzio:

I don't understand what you disagree with.

I think he hit the nail on the head. The hobby is what we make of it. I do think it could stand some standardization as to track gauge and scales. If there was only one track gauge, say 7.5" because that is what the majority of tracks in the US and Canada run and scales of 1.5/1.6 and 2.5" it would allow the vendors to concentrate their efforts and stand a better chance of selling their wares, not having money tied up in inventory of small scale parts that might sell in 10 years. I've heard there is an upward surge of activity in the smaller scales. Is it enough to sustain the vendors catering to that scale? I think not. I've seen some really nice equipment is the smaller scales and the thought always goes through my mind - Just think, with a little more money for material they could have had this in a more useful scale.

I know I'm going to touch a nerve with this comment.

I started in 1.5" scale, 7.5" gauge and have never looked at any other scale or gauge with thoughts of getting any thing to run. I am a member of SVLSRM and enjoy pulling the public for two reasons: 1. It makes my engine work harder. 2. It makes money for the club, money that is needed to sustain our activities and pay for all the things needed. Dues just arn't enough. It is written in the club rules that only 7.5" gauge, 1.5" scale or larger will be used to haul the public. Yes, I know that smaller gauges are used in other countries but this is the US and we have our own rules.

A point to consider. It hasn't been that long ago that Chrysler offered four different brands of cars, GM offered six brands and Ford offered three. What do they have now? Chrysler has two, GM has three and Ford has two. My point being: Better, more efficient coverage with fewer product lines. They got smaller to become more efficient, to survive.


Bill

[tburzio]

I don't understand what you disagree with.

Courteously, I disagree that you understand the thrust of the original post. Courteously.

[Loco112]

The old guys weren't all mechanics and machinists by trade. They were talented but no more talented than you and me. They just wanted it more than us. Our society is based on the 'easy button' mentality. There's far too much catalogue shopping today.

Thats exactly whats wrong; too many guys wanting to buy everything and they are not interested in commitment and investing in making something that they can share, trade or barter.


What ever happened to; I'll make this, and you make that, and he'll make three of those and we'll all trade out in the end so we'll all get finished three times faster and have parts that are many times better? Nobody wants to invest in the manufacture of a part anymore. very few of the active livesteamers will search for and collect blueprints for future projects anymore, that tells me we are in big trouble. That means that they never plan to make anything themselves.

Machine tools are cheaper today than they ever were back 20-50 years ago, still few people have them.

The "build it yourself and make good parts" hobby is dying quickly, but that just makes the great projects that much greater and that much more rare in my eyes.

[Marty_Knox]

Gee, can I disagree with everyone, except Jim? I think the hobby is bigger and better than ever. Go back to Live Steam magazine in 1970 and see how many clubs there were, and how many suppliers. There are far more tracks to run on now, and a lot more suppliers to choose from.I think the diesels and electrics are in addition to, not instead of, steam locomotives. As for affording a locomotive, that's an individual choice, what YOU do with your time and money. My favorite quote is from Tommy Thompson, who built the 18" gauge Anacortes Railway. He told me he built the RR with his beer and cigarette money. My response was 'Tommy, you don't smoke or drink!' He said 'That's right!'

[Harlock]

I do not look at the hobby in terms of black and white, nor do I look upon it with the elitism that in order to be truly accepted, one has to roll your own from scratch. That is the kind of mentality that will send this hobby into a dwindling state.

There are two resources you can choose to spend: money, and time. Some people have more money than time, and choose to buy more than build. Some people have more time than money, and choose to build more than buy. I believe that the hobby should be open to both of these paradigms, and everything inbetween.

I know a fairly well off person who built a substantial engine (and cars) of his own from scratch, but also commissioned two other engines from a master model builder while completing his own. Whether you yourself are doing it or you are supporting one of the masters, that's all good. Or if you support one of the vendors or model builders by buying without ever having built anything, that's OK with me too, as long as you respect and understand the hobby.

Tony is being very polite in his response. Tony Burzio bought a pre-machined kit form O.S. live steam and assembled it himself - balancing the time vs. monetary input, and I see no problem with that either. Without that option, he would likely not be in the hobby and the hobby would be poorer for it, as he has been such a gracious host at his home club, and he is always the first person to take the time to explain how a steam engine works to members of the public. I watched him keep two small children and their dad completely engaged for more than an hour at the Sage Brush Short Line as he walked them through every step of firing up his engine and explaining what everything did.

We need to accept the fact that the hobby is not the same as it was 50 years ago, it has evolved, and it is still evolving today. It needs to evolve or die.

The simple fact of the matter is that shop classes are no longer taught de-rigeur in high school and college, the shop trades have largely vanished en masse from the United States, and that's what was feeding the scratch builder phenomenon. When a lot of people in the mid-century became involved in live steam, I suspect that they brought shop skills that they had already learned with them. Now someone getting involved in the hobby faces the additional challenge (or joy!) of learning all of the shop skills necessary and acquiring all the equipment. because of the aforementioned changes in education and job focus in this country, the pool of people inherently interested has necessarily dwindled. The other thing that was driving the live steam hobby were men who wanted to model what they grew up watching run by their house. They saw the technology, they understood it, it was a big part of life back then. Railroading is very much not in the public eye at this point in America. And thus the pool dwindles further. In order to stem that shrinkage, one has to open the possibilities a little.

I think that what gives 'checkbook live steamers' a bad name is those very few individuals who buy an engine without learning the ins and outs of how it really works, then cause a holy terror on the track. Interested parties should be encouraged to learn the ropes, learn how to run other engines safely, then take the plunge. it's all about how you, the seasoned live steamers, handle these people. You have to not be afraid to tell them how things need to be done for the safe enjoyment of all. How newcomers approach this hobby is largely up to the incumbents.

I do generally agree with the last points with the caveat that a responsible live steamer who has purchased an engine for his enjoyment can be a part of this group.

The future is not a long line of disinterested public passengers looking for an afternoon's amusement. It is not in a catalogue or an online store. It is you and me who are willing to invest the time and hard work that this hobby demands. That's what makes it so deliciously rewarding, when your locomotive runs well, along the tracks that you help build and maintain. And do us all a favour, personally introduce a friend to your hobby, one at a time.

This weekend I am setting up my engine at a model train show, and I will be running it in place on my treadmill stand. I will have my Kozo book there as an example of how to take a seemingly daunting task and breaking it down into little, manageable steps.

-M

[WJH]

The hobby is what ever some one wants to make of it. I do not own any of my own trains but am more than happy to dig dirt , isolate rail, load ballast into cars, and sometimes drive the work train. Owning my own locomotive and running my own train on run day is for when I am financially in a place to afford such luxuries. The hobby brought me the wonders of machining metal, and have been using that gained talent for a much more vast horizon than model trains. I learned Solid Works to design my own trains and have turned it into a way to make money.
So to each their own, they take from the hobby what they want.

[ccvstmr]

...many good comments and perspectives offered by a variety of contributors to this board. Congrats to all of you for whatever you look for and take away from this great hobby and the persons that make it what it is. Can I ask...Jim, what prompted your original message?

As for the 7.5" vs 7.25" issue...what's the big deal? Get over the gauge difference, it is what it is. It's probably not going to change in our life. For the suppliers...shouldn't be a big deal to stock (2) different sized axles with an 1/8" offset for the shoulder on each end. Not an issue for either diesel or electric locos or rolling stock. For the steam locos...okay, the crank pins need to be a little longer for one gauge than the other. Again, minor differences from a parts stocking viewpoint.

Enjoy the hobby for what it is. Don't compare your efforts, abilities or capabilities based on the size of your wallet or the size of your machine shop. Many modelers have turned out beautiful models with limitations in all areas. There's something to be learned from every club and every hobbyist. We're a unique group of individuals...and collectively, we keep the art of model train building and scale railroading alive. See you at a track...someplace! Carl B.

[Chris Hollands]

I dont understand why people bring this subject up ,the hobby is what it is.

[tsph6500]

Can I ask...Jim, what prompted your original message?

Please remember that this rant is strictly my personal opinion which was unsolicited to begin with...

I was prompted by the recent complaining about the lack of suppliers and the shoddy services by some of those in business today. Someone else was saying that there was no elevated track near him and so on. All valid comments but I believe they are missing an important point. We don't have to rely on other people to enable our enjoyment of our hobby.

You only have control over what you do

Over the years I've been an active member in my local club I have come to the realization that we ourselves determine what the hobby is, good and bad. Don't expect others to do the work for you. If you have time to play, you have time to work first, then play. Maybe that work is building an engine or a riding car or a track.

My club has been around for over 75 years and has seen the ups and downs of the economy, war time and peace. We have had several prolific builders and they all weren't master machinists or fabulously wealthy. They loved steam engines and so they did what they had to do to get one or a dozen. Some built from scratch, some bought their from the 'builders' in the hobby.

Lord help us if all we are to see are minor variations of Allen Moguls or Little Engines' Atlantics painted in different colours because that is all that is available by the choice of the suppliers. Both are fine engine designs but there are thousands of locomotive types to model or make up your own. We have a huge advantage of access to information from archives and fellow steamers that our mentors did not. Just look at this forum, one of many. You can instantly talk to hundreds of fellow steamers. Imagine being in your cellar in the 1940s or 50s all by yourself, yet they got it done. Simple tools, few suppliers and limited contact.

I am not a machinist, never had a metal shop class, ever. A couple of fellows with better skills than I are helping me along and we are getting more and more projects done and now I can help teach others. We encourage and teach each other. We build track together and then we steam together. That's the 'Brotherhood'.

This is not being elitist, this is one of the cornerstones of the hobby. We are not giant Lionel train sets, not here at least, not yet.

I suggest our motto should be "Build something today."