Best AutoCAD 2008 replacement but not expensive

[DaveD]

I’m losing my access to AutoCAD 2008 and don’t plan to purchase an AutoCAD license to replace it. It’s too expensive and I’m not thrilled with the quality or support, with AutoCAD often simply disappearing from my screen at the most inopportune times, with the need to recover drawings when I get it running again, So I’m looking for the best alternative and don’t want to spend a bunch of money (read less than $300 for a 3D-capable license). I have well over a hundred AutoCAD drawings of my P7 locomotive, along with drawings of dozens of other things that I must get to from time to time. There are a bunch of AutoCAD alternatives out there, with various capabilities. Here’s what I must have:
1. DWG native capability. That is, I must be able to open and save my existing AutoCAD drawings in native DWG format. I’m not interested in converting to another format.
2. No or small learning curve for what I’m used to doing, in 2D, so full AutoCAD compatibility, with a similar interface.
3. I currently “fit” together lots of my locomotive subassembly drawings into larger drawings, using XREFs and Blocks. I do this to ensure fit and function before I make chips. I want to continue to do this, in generally the same manner.
4. 3D capability, with solid rendering. I haven’t learned to do 3D yet, as I haven’t had a need, but plan to do so for the reason of the next item.
5. Easy but not necessarily native format compatibility with Shapeways.com, for modeling of castings and patterns, based on input from Dan (Fender) and others. Looks to me like this has the capability of fundamentally changing the way we build models, and I believe I want to be part of that with my P7, especially as I get to the smaller but difficult to make external appliances.
Of course, all my machining is manual, so no need to interface with other products. Remember, keep it fairly cheap, and AutoCAD compatible.

And thanks for your thoughts.

[rrnut-2]

DraftSight. Its free and it is supported by Solidworks. We use it at work as a backup when AutoCad fails. It will even open files that AutoCad won't. Menu's are almost the same as AutoCad.

I have AutoCad Electrical 2005 at home, which Autodesk wants me to pay $4300 to upgrade. Every time that they call, I tell them that they are too expensive, and then I will tell them that DraftSight is just as good. They usually hang up instantly.

For 3d, Alibre Home edition works good.

Jim

[LivingLegend]

AutoCAD user since v2.6 back in the 1980's, here. The last Autodesk product I bought for myself was AutoCad LT 2000 when it was released over 10 years ago to use for home/hobby project. Haven't used the "full blown" AutoCAD since that time.

For 2D CAD, there is the free CAD mentioned above and another free alternative..... Solid Edge Free 2D Drafting. Solid Edge Free 2D is available from Solid Edge (which is a competitor to SolidWorks). Both of these 2D CAD's are on a par with each other and with AutoCAD, with the Solid Edge program being released a number of years before Dassault's (SolidWorks) 2D version. I've downloaded both programs, but have only tried/used the Solid Edge 2D. Have been thinking about trying out DraftSight, though.

For 3D, I bought Alibre Professional in 2007. Upgraded it to the Expert version the following year. I like it.... One of these days I'll have to take the time to sit down and learn how to fully use all of it's advanced features. Alibre isn't SolidWorks, yet. But then, SolidWorks has been around a lot longer. The Alibre "home/hobby" version, Design PE will do most all of what the home user needs to do, and currently costs $199 (plus $199/year for maintenance) vs. Alibre Expert's $1999 (plus $399/year for maintenance). The Alibre "business" versions are a viable, lower cost alternative to the SolidWorks/Solid Edge/Inventor/KeyCreator programs.

BTW: For info.... Alibre was purchased last Summer by 3D Systems.... A major player in the manufacture of Rapid Prototype systems/3D printers.

LL

[LivingLegend]

Here’s what I must have: ....Easy but not necessarily native format compatibility with Shapeways.com, for modeling of castings and patterns, based on input from Dan (Fender) and others. Looks to me like this has the capability of fundamentally changing the way we build models, and I believe I want to be part of that with my P7, especially as I get to the smaller but difficult to make external appliances.

If you plan on having a Rapid Prototype model(s) made to use as a patterns() to make molds from, or to be used as one-off "burn out" patterns (RP plastic or wax) to have investment castings made, all that's required is that the 3D model's output file be in the .stl format.

If you would rather continue to do your drawing work in 2D only and don't care about a 3D Solid Modeling program like SolidWorks, Solid Edge, Inventor or Pro/E or Alibre (Catia.... won't even go there) you could consider a program like Rhino 3D. Rhino costs $1000, but can be found for $800 or less. It also has drafting capability, but not to the extent of an AutoCAD level program.

Rhino is a major 3D design program used for everything from jewelry to boats. Jewelry designers will output their designs, for example, from Rhino to a high resolution RP machine to make a wax model. That model would then be used as a "burn out" patten to make the casting.

LL

[Fender]

LL,
Do you know of a supplier that will take STL files and make wax RP patterns? Shapeways does a fine job making plastic or "sandstone" models, but I don't believe they will make wax models.

Also, I obtained a "free" copy of the Solidedge 2D software, but what I didn't like about it was that you didn't get a perpetual license. They would of course continue to offer the "not free" upgrade to their 3D product, and the 2D license had to be renewed each year to continue using it. I was concerned that at some point they might pull the plug on the renewals if you didn't buy the upgrade to 3D....

[LivingLegend]

Dan....

From my research.... A good number of foundries have started offering RP services in wax and they will give you the full service. Send them the .stl file, and they'll print the pattern, sprue/gate it, invest it, cast it, and ship it. Do a Google search to find one.

Also from my research.... Wax is not the best to use if you plan to ship the pattern. More susceptible to damage. Both patterns made by RP, or by wax injection into a mold. Plastic is better. But the problem is, does the media made by a specific manufacturer for their own RP machines burn out well enough for a good casting. Some RP ABS plastics do, other RP plastics as well as resins don't. A well known live steam supplier and I have been discussing this and the problems of RP wax patterns and patterns made by wax injection, as well as plastics numerous times over the past couple of years.

LL

[DaveD]

Jim, LL, and Dan, thanks for the input--Dan for alerting me to this new world of 3D/RP last week. I installed DraftSight, Solid Edge Free 2D, and a trial version of Alibre. After playing with DraftSight and Solid Edge 2D, some observations:

DraftSight will probably become my 2D AutoCAD replacement. It looks almost just like AutoCAD 2008 2D-only, and that's what I want for now. I already have it configured much the same as AutoCAD. It lacks some features of AutoCAD, such as the Field capability and the Design Center. But I rebuilt my largest External Reference drawing, the locomotive side elevation assembly, which has about thirty clipped XFEFed drawings, some of which reference other drawings, and it generates almost as fast as AutoCAD, but without bombing as AutoCAD almost always does now. It is lacking robust block support, and copying/pasting blocks from one drawing to another will have to do. I will miss the Field capability, as I use it a lot in ACAD for title blocks, such as plot date and file name fields. I have to learn to do a number of things differently, and I’m sure it’s missing a lot of other features, but, for 2D it works great. Support is almost non-existent (that is also so with ACAD, but at least there are a lot of independent forums out there for ACAD).

Solid Edge 2D looks like a more powerful program (it was almost 500MB in size, severely pinching my monthly 4G data allowance), but doesn’t reproduce my existing .dwg’s well, and is much slower. But the main problem is a different approach to CAD from that of ACAD, and I do want a similar interface. It's parametric approach to drawing is probably a wave of the future, and would probably dovetail nicely with Alibre, but not now.

Alibre. Wow! If the videos say anything, this is quite a 3D program. I will reserve judgment for it for later, however, as I don't have time to mess with it now. But even though I do not yet need it, it looks like it would be fun to use anyhow.

Do I need Alibre personal or professional? Expert is out of the question. Personal is $200. I asked for a price quote on professional, but haven't heard back. Anyone know the going price for Pro?

[tburzio]

It's funny, but I've been using my old and trusty CorelDraw for making DXF files to feed into CamBam for my CNC mill. I also use CorelDraw for my laser engraver. It's slam dunk easy. I don't need all that drafting and dimension stuff. You have to make individual pieces for the mill anyway, so why get something complicated?

Yesterday I made a drawing to replace my OS Mogul's ashpan. 10 minutes to create the DXF and export, another 5 to create the CNC NC file. Try that with AutoCAD!

[Dan Rowe]

Dave,
The list of Alibre world wide sellers is available on the site. Only a few of them have online purchase options.
http://www.alibre.com/company/programs/ ... d%20States

This one has the best cross reference of features:
http://www.novedge.com/brands/35

I just ordered Alibre PE and I am looking forward a new 3D cad program for my model designs.

Dan

[LivingLegend]

Do I need Alibre personal or professional? Expert is out of the question. Personal is $200. I asked for a price quote on professional, but haven't heard back. Anyone know the going price for Pro?

Dave....

I believe the current price for Alibre Pro is $999, plus $299 a year for maintenance and upgrades. The first year of maintanence is included in the purchase price of Pro and Expert. I think it should the same with PE, but you should check with Alibre.

In a nutshell.... With Alibre PE, you will have limited import/export capability to other programs. .dwg, .dxf, .stl files) and that's about it. PE also has basic 2D, basic rendering, no parts libraries, as it's limitations.

With Pro, as compared to PE, you will get the full 2D tool set (and the ability to turn a 3D model into 2D drawing), basic sheet metal, basic 3D import, parts library,and photo-realistic rendering.

Remember, that you have the ability to upgrade from a lower level version of Alibre (ie: PE to Pro, or to Expert. Or Pro to Expert) at any time. A few times a year, Alibre offers upgrades at lower prices and with a couple of extras thrown in.

If you want the higher level functions/features, including the full featured sheet metal well as the Motion simulation modules, you will have to go with Expert.

The Alibre website address is http://www.alibre.com .... I would suggest that you go there and look at the features of Alibre Design PE. They have a chart that will tell you what features are not in PE and which version, Pro, or Expert, you would have to buy to get the ones that aren't. You can then go to the business Alibre section and look at the features of Pro and compare it to Expert.... With more in depth descriptions.

Disclaimer: I have no connection to/with Alibre other than as a user.

LL

[LivingLegend]

It's funny, but I've been using my old and trusty CorelDraw for making DXF files to feed into CamBam for my CNC mill. I also use CorelDraw for my laser engraver. It's slam dunk easy. I don't need all that drafting and dimension stuff. You have to make individual pieces for the mill anyway, so why get something complicated?

Yesterday I made a drawing to replace my OS Mogul's ashpan. 10 minutes to create the DXF and export, another 5 to create the CNC NC file. Try that with AutoCAD!

Not everyone is using these programs to export to a CNC to make parts. Not to mention designing as a 3D model is more efficient than designing in 2D. Since the part is shown on the screen as if you are looking at the real thing in front of you.

Plus, many have the need for something more advanced than what would suit just the everyday home shop hobbyist.

LL

[WJH]

I've been spoiled horribly by Solidworks. I could never imagine using a 2d cad program for anything but the simplest of uses.
It seems with many CAD programs, you need to know what the parts dimensions are already, with a 3D cad program like Solidworks, or Alibre, you can "develop" the part in real time. Quite often I will draw up a part not knowing what it will look like in the end, amazing for creating your "own" designs. This summer I am going to start machining parts for this...

I had no drawings to work off of, just idea's. Try doing that with a "2d" cad package!

Oh, and these kind of views are quite helpful as well... Not saying you cant do this in a 2d cad package, but more of a "would you really want to?"