LBSC Virginia plans

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SteveM
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by SteveM »

One of the interesting things about LBSC is that while he designed something like 100 locomotives, he built around 50.

That means that there are about 50 of his designs that he never built.

It's obvious from the issues with Virginia that Virginia may be one he did not build, but if so, damn he got it 98% right without ever building it.

How many people do you know that could do a complete working design and write an article on construction without having take one to completion?

Steve
Andy R
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by Andy R »

LBSC designed a different throttle for the big boiler version of Virginia than for the original small boiler version. The big-boiler throttle stand (shown on pg. 105 of the book) has a horizontal tongue through which two holes are drilled and tapped to facilitate attachment to the inside of the crown of the boiler. I made mine to LBSC's plans, and after trial assembly of the throttle components discovered that the steam dome flanges would cover the holes. At least i had not yet drilled those holes through the boiler barrel. I silver soldered a bronze tongue extension, 1/2-inch long and matching the other dimensions of the throttle stand, and located new holes clear of the dome flanges. It all fits fine now. Someday i will remember to make it standard practice to draw up complete views of sub-assemblies ... to scale .. FIRST.
Andy R
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by Andy R »

Another thing about the design that a full-size scaled drawing would have helped is the superheater assembly.

The drawing from LBSC (page 106 in the book) shows 90-degree bends from the upper manifold to the horizontal tubes going back in the three large superheater-sized boiler tubes. Try as i might, i could not get the bends tight enough. But i did eventually find 90-degree factory-made 1/4-in. copper tube fittings at the local ACE Hardware, and even 1/4-in. copper tube solder unions. So i cut apart the superheater assembly and voila! with factory-made 90-degree bends, the superheater assembly fits. What a relief.

Fitting up the smokebox to the boiler barrel was a different story.

Oh, the two fit well, but LBSC shows (and i made) a male threaded union-fitting in the center of the upper manifold (or wet header), to which a 5/32-in copper pipe is to be fitted, going to the snifting valve. The boiler section on page 106 does not show that tube, and the smokebox section on page 118 does not show the wet header; only the snifting valve tube directed in the general direction of the wet header. And the stack is not shown in either section. It is shown on page 96, and you guessed it, none of the goodies in the smokebox are shown in that section.

If i had taken the time to draw to scale on one drawing all of the information shown on the sections (pages 96, 106, and 118) i would have discovered prior to fabrication that the petticoat of the stack is immediately adjacent to the snifting valve connection on the wet header. As made there was no way to make the connection. What to do? I made a 90-degree fitting with a pig tail. That clears the petticoat. The lousy photo attached shows the whole mess during a trial fit-up without the smokebox. And the other lousy photo shows the stuff within the smokebox during a trial fit-up. Everything seems to fit and i'm happy. Now on to support of the firebox.
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gwrdriver
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by gwrdriver »

SteveM wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:23 pm One of the interesting things about LBSC is that while he designed something like 100 locomotives, he built around 50. [snip]. How many people do you know that could do a complete working design and write an article on construction without having take one to completion? - Steve
Steve,
It wasn't all that uncommon - for instance Martin Evans and Don Young (of ME) did just that. One would think that after as many as 50 projects experience would show what can be built and work, and what won't.
The problems would come (and have) if they continued to recycle details which in previous projects had been found to be a problem, even for advanced builders. That, and the continued publication of designs where errors are known, and complained about, but corrections are never made on the drawings. There are now, or were, a couple of "Errors" pages where for the model engineering public good contributors submit drawing errors they've discovered. One of these was begun some years ago by a former member here, Alan Stepney.
I'm sure there's a Virginia page somewhere.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN
SteveM
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Location: Wisconsin

Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by SteveM »

gwrdriver wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:21 amThere are now, or were, a couple of "Errors" pages where for the model engineering public good contributors submit drawing errors they've discovered. One of these was begun some years ago by a former member here, Alan Stepney.
I'm sure there's a Virginia page somewhere.
There are errors shown here:
http://www.ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php ... s_Virginia

Steve
Andy R
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by Andy R »

Here's another quirk in LBSC's design.
As I calculate, the crownsheet for the big boiler version is about 1/16-inch above (yes. above!) the bottom gauge glass fitting as shown on page 124. (It's 1/2 -inch above the centerline of the boiler penetration for the gauge glass.)
Oops!
James Powell
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by James Powell »

That's not the only time LBSC did that particular trick...Britannia has the same problem !

(owner of a Britannia in 3.5" gauge...)

James
Cary Stewart
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by Cary Stewart »

Another design by LBSC that he never built was the Titfield Thunderbolt (Lyon) in both 3 1/2" and 5" gages. The 5" version had a few issues in the GAB valve gear. Subsequent builders found them and designed the corrections. Also some improvements were made. There is/are several 7 1/4" gage models being made in the UK. Bruce Ward bought a used 5" gage one, brought it back from England in about 1970 and re gaged I for 4 3/4" gage. Just barely enough clearance for the inside of the wheels - no splashers or boiler lagging and he incorporated the fixes to the valve gear. He din not move the cylinder oiler to under the footplate. I purchased a set of late planes from Blackgates several years ago and I think some mods to the plans had been done. I also printed out the complete set of LBSC's article for comparison. The engine in now in the hands of a young man who is very enthusiastic and is having a lot of fun with the engine. It is a good runner.
Cary
Andy R
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by Andy R »

LBSC shows the support of the firebox end of the boiler as a pair of angles on each side, with the topmost screwed to the firebox wall, and the bottom one screwed to the frame. See the sketches on page 123.

My Dad built his small-boiler version that way, but threaded penetrations in the thin wall of the boiler, especially for structural support, do not make me feel comfortable.

So instead I machined brass channels to fit between the top and bottom frame members, and tapped the solid copper mud ring for the connection: A pair of stainless steel 4-40 bolts.
IMG_4007 (1).jpg
It allows expansion and contraction of the boiler, and allows the loco to be picked up when needed.

That redesign also allowed the rod supporting the ash pan to pass thru the brass channels and i was able to omit the separate bracket attached to the mud ring as shown on page 124. The photograph is not as clear on that because the ashpan is heat stained from silver-soldering the corners.
Andy R
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by Andy R »

Yet another dimensional quirk:
The blowdown was located per LBSC's plans and of course, the blowdown interferes with the aft axle (or visa-versa). If you look at my 2012 post crowing about how wonderful the firebox fits between the springs, it's obvious, but that was 8 years ago...how much we forget. The solution that i came up with was twofold: I inserted 1/8-inch shims between the base of the smokebox saddle and the top of the frame to raise the smokebox end, made the firebox supports as in the above post to keep the boiler level, and made a reducer from 1/4 to 3/16 diameter for the outlet. That cleared the axle, but the centerline axis of the valve stem was now exactly in-line with the bottom of the aft frame member. Not wanting to notch that, I bought a pair of 45-degree elbows and a valve from PM Research and it's good to go. See the attached photo.
IMG_4107 small.jpg
The piping is all done and I'm now working on the cab - of course my own design because LBSC's Big-Boiler cab is ugly.
shild
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by shild »

I really like this locomotive and am probably going to try building it. This is some of the junk I have so far I might be able to use for it. Looks like I have one of the 7/8 copper tubes I need for the boiler, but other tube isn't 9 inches. I've got some 1/8" flat stock and angle stock. Been thinking about that axle pump. I wonder if there is a lawnmower or leafblower motor that already has a piston rod close to that size so I don't have to build it from scratch? Trying to think of other things people throw away I can get parts off for this? Would a grease gun that comes from Autozone work as a water hand pump?
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LVRR2095
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Re: LBSC Virginia plans

Post by LVRR2095 »

Building things like pumps will give you experience in machining.
If you can’t build a pump, your chances of building a locomotive are not so good.
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