2d and 3d Design file exchange thread

[Bill Shields]

absolutely true about the GUI vs. FTP, but FTP is a lot easier to set up - and I know how (giggle).

[Curtis_F]

As someone who has a few thousand 3D CAD files (bells, domes, wheels, coupler pockets, all-new & custom running gear designs, etc) I like this concept.

However I would like to see posted permissions from any vendors allowing files containing designs for modifications to their products to be uploaded to their site. Also 3D models and detail drawings of un-modified, e.g. stock, parts avliable from vendors should not be allowed.

Users should have to accept a terms and conditions agreement before being able to download files so that something I post for free won't be made into a product for someone else.


Cheers,

Curtis F.

[Bill Shields]

good luck enforcing the policy. I agree with it, but....try to keep someone from making a 'small modification' and running with it. All you can do is if someone is found doing it, you stop allowing him to 'get files'...or at least make it more difficult....which again is probably more work than it is worth. Having someone 'sign an agreement' may slow a few people down

In reality, we should all realize that anything on the internet is fair game.

As for digitized designs of something a vendor charges $$ for (sells paper), you will never get this permission and should (in all honesty) not ask. You are taking $$ out of their pockets. Why would Marty (for example) want / allow you to put digitized Allen Mogul drawings up on a site for free when he charges $$ for them to cover his investment? If someone did that, and I were Marty, I would send a lawyer after you, with resulting consequences.

We all should respect the few vendors we have and do all we can to help them STAY IN BUSINESS. Passing out their designs for free is contradictory to this philosophy.

I have already volunteered to digitize some drawings of bits and pieces for folks and they have declined, saying that the large paper drawings are tough to scan and pirate (which I can appreciate).

Updating drawings and providing them ONLY to the source is another matter, and I have done that for people, but the digital files go no further than my archives.

I have had many requests for copies of my LE 1" 0-4-0 camelback, but I don't put them on the internet because LE is still in business and it's their product.

[Curtis_F]

good luck enforcing the policy. I agree with it, but....try to keep someone from making a 'small modification' and running with it...

Agreed.

It's just something to hopefully have people pause for a moment and think about, and if someone is contemplating doing it then maybe, just maybe, such a notice would help them decide not to.

I have already volunteered to digitize some drawings of bits and pieces for folks and they have declined, saying that the large paper drawings are tough to scan and pirate (which I can appreciate).

I think all of us who have done design work for a living can appreciate that stance.


A trickier question, at least for me, is what about posting designs & 3D models for parts or assemblies that integrate into an existing vendor supported locomotive design? For example I have an equalized Engine Truck design for the RMI "Sweet Creek" locomotive. The only common parts with it and the stock Engine Truck are the wheels, the design is mine, but if I post it that means potential sales loss to RMI for one or more of their Engine Trucks. What about drawings and 3D files for a 2.5" scale cab designed to fit a Little Engines 0-6-0 look 2.5" scale? That's the kind of stuff I'd want to get permission from the vendors for before I upload/share the files.

I have had many requests for copies of my LE 1" 0-4-0 camelback, but I don't put them on the internet because LE is still in business and it's their product.

I respect that.


Cheers,

Curtis F.

[WJH]

I agree that STEP is an excellent choice for a neutral file, and FTP is really the way to go for this, along with a webpage.
Also include the native file that the item was created with, and as others said, a PDF of 2d drawings with dimensions.
My problem is that nearly all of my drawings are of commercial items which I cannot share.
You know, along these same lines, perhaps an open source project locomotive could be created, such as an electric steeple cab or what not, where people contribute their engineering and drawings.

[Bill Shields]

ethically, morally and legally, the 'big cab' is something that there should be no problem with, since it is like selling different wheels to fit Cadillac....or even after-market fenders for that matter. it isn't something that you would expect to purchase unless you already had the original to begin with.

not sure about the truck - tough to tell in text.

I have provided an equalized engine brake design that will fit an Allen something, or any other loco - it's very generic and has no dimensions that are usable unless you are building exactly MY loco.

Asking a vendor - what do you REALLY expect them to say 'YES'? When in doubt, the easy answer is 'NO'.

It's a fine line, but drawings clearly violate copyrights.

What we should all be looking for here is something 'different' or 'unavailable' to allow us to kit bash or create something that is not exactly like every other XX-XX-XX at the track.

[hwboivin3]

So, after the previous comments, is anyone going to set up a place to host files?



Caboose Light

Zip file contains original .dwg file, an .igs and a .stl



http://depositfiles.com/files/2i5arh2te

[dnevil]

I like the idea of sharing open designs among live steamers. This idea is being considered by the North American IBLS secretary (see the thread
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... hilit=IBLS).

There is room for both commercial designs as well as open, shareable designs. This is how the software industry has evolved. Open source software (think Linux) has accelerated the growth of the computer industry. Hardware vendors sell more hardware, not less, because of open-source software. Some companies make revenue not by selling software, but rather by selling support services for open-source software. These concepts could easily transfer into the live steam hobby.

Let's say someone creates an open-source design for valve gear. This could include not only the 2-D drawings, but also a 3-D model that could be printed on Shapeways and used as a pattern (see the thread
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... d7#p252912). An individual could use the designs to cast his or her own parts for personal use. A commercial entity could cast a larger number of parts and offer them for sale. Everyone benefits, and the live steam hobby grows.

As with open-source software, open-source hardware designs should have a usage license attached with it. An appropriate license can be selected at
http://creativecommons.org/. The license can either allow a second party to reuse the design with no strings attached (i.e. modify and use), or the license can require that any modifications must be given back to the live steam community (modify and share).

An added benefit of open-source designs is the fact that the immense knowledge required in the live steam hobby is preserved. The more live steamers that download and save an open-source design, the more likely the design will survive fires, tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes and death of the designer.

If you have an opinion regarding open-source designs please share it with Ken Shattock, the North American IBLS Secretary.

Daris

[hwboivin3]

Thank you for this! This is exactly what I was waiting for. Sorry for not reading the survey earlier.
I had asked Harold V his thoughts on it and his response was for me to put some up and see what
happened. An IBLS web library of open source designs and information would be great!
I will hold off on anymore posts of models and see what happens with IBLS.

maybe the pattern pool will return!

[jkimberln]

[quote="hwboivin3"]So, after the previous comments, is anyone going to set up a place to host files?



Caboose Light

Zip file contains original .dwg file, an .igs and a .stl


I down loaded this file just to see if I could print the STL on my printer. I found that the STL file won't function with Slice3r to generate G-code. The marker light is the same. Evidently all STL files are not the same flavor. If it can't be sliced with Slice3r, then it can't be printed on one of the cheaper home built Rep-Rap or Printrbot printers.

As far as hosting is concerned, why not use either Model-eng or Livesteamers lists files? Both of them already have file sections.

JerryK

[Lovesthedrive]

A suggestion is perhaps to list the pictures on some one like flicker. The website allows you to view images with out the download. Also keeps users from linking to their pictures.

[Curtis_F]

[quote="jkimberln"]I down loaded this file just to see if I could print the STL on my printer. I found that the STL file won't function with Slice3r to generate G-code.[/quot]
Jerry,

If/when you have a couple minutes to spare could you test the STL file in this zip file linked to below to see if it's usable? It's a Binary STL scaled in inches, with the resolution in SolidWorks 2009 set to the default "fine".

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9324681/2.00-S ... s-Cast.zip


If anyone is interested in checking out different file formats; In the zip file are the SolidWorks 2009 .SLDPRT, .STL, .SAT, .IGS, & .STEP, file formats for a 2.00 scale Steam Brake Cylinder off of a little export Baldwin. The part is designed for rapid-protoyping an investment-cast pattern hence there is no draft in the part despite being a casting. There's no shrinkage either as that is compensated for at the time the pattern is printed by the company printing the part in accordance to the standards of the particular foundry which will be casting the part.

Thank you,

Curtis F.