Burner Help Please.............

[steamfreak22]

Hello again,

I would like to ask for some advice on installing a conventional oil burner into a vertical boiler locomotive.

I'm building a freelance logging locomotive, and I will be firing it on oil. I want to use one of the 1.5" scale A&K Enterprises burners in my engine. The problem I am faced with is getting an even flame all over the whole firebox rather than a hot spot in the direction its facing.

Thoughts?

David W.

[bcody]

Install the burner on a tangent so you will get a circular flame path. That should allow the burner to completely fill the firebox with flame. Also gives the oil more time to burn.

A few years ago I purchased the "RANEL II" from John Noble and that is the way he had the burner installed in a Semple VFT boiler. Worked fine feeding a Semple 10 HP "V" compound. I used propane as an atomizing agent until I raised steam.

Bill

[steamfreak22]

Thanks for the reply.

Keep em commin.

It helps greatly!

David W.

[Bill Shields]

I know it may sound a bit pedantic, but in addition to pushing the oil in tangentally, you want to be sure that you introduce / guide the combustion air also in tangentially - and in the same direction of motion as the oil.

As I said - it may seem OBVIOUS to some of us, but to others, may be a totally foreign concepts, so better said.

[littleevan99]

So, put the burner so that it's not shooting straight at the firebox wall, but at a spot where it's rounded? Also, put it in the front or back? I want to put an atomizer in my CliShay.

[NP317]

So, put the burner so that it's not shooting straight at the firebox wall, but at a spot where it's rounded? Also, put it in the front or back? I want to put an atomizer in my CliShay.

Full sized oil-burning locomotives (at least the logging locos I am familiar with: 70 - 110 tons) inject the oil/air from the front of the firebox heading straight aft, bouncing upward off of the rear fire brick and then forward through the upper firebox below the crown sheet. This causes the fire to use twice the firebox length to fully combust before heading forward through the fire tubes. Additional air inlets are often positioned at the rear of the firebox, sometimes in the fire door. Our models also require this longer "fire path," given that combustion is not miniaturized along with our models' dimensions.

My propane-burning 1/8th scale steamer has an angled stainless steel arch in the firebox plate causing a lengthening of the combustion path. The gas/flame path moves aft and upwards around the rear of the arch plate and then forward under the crown sheet towards the tube sheet. A 3/8" gap on both sides allows some combustion flow directly on the side sheets to maximize radiant heating. If the arch plate heats enough to glow orange, it provides addition radiant heat transfer to the firebox, where 60% - 75% of heat transfer occurs in full-sized locomotive boilers. I don't know the actual heat transfer equivalent for our models. Anyone?

Water use of my steamer is minimal even when working the long grades at Train Mt. My loco is saturated (no superheat) and I DO hook up the valve gear when working the engine.
'Seems to work well this way, and my second locomotive has the same arrangements. 'Hopefully in steam within a year.
~RN

[littleevan99]

But how would a vertical boiler be different in the mounting of the atomizer? I know traditionally, it's shot in from the back with all the accesories that you mentioned. But in a vertical boiler, the flues are not in their normal place on a horizontal boiler.

[holtSteamer]

I have seen a steam donkey setup with a tangent burner and a firebrick lined lower ash pan that the fire swirled in as it makes itself around the firebox before going up the flues, given a longer combustion path.

[NP317]

I have seen a steam donkey setup with a tangent burner and a firebrick lined lower ash pan that the fire swirled in as it makes itself around the firebox before going up the flues, given a longer combustion path.

I fired a 30-ton locomotive (self-propelled) crane and its firebox and burner were set up as described above.
It fired quietly and easily, with a swirling flame path providing complete combustion before the gases headed up through the 180 two inch diameter flues. The controls were set up so the single crane operator could reach back to them from their Operator's seat.

A good design to emulate in your model vertical boiler.
~RN

[littleevan99]

Would the oil pan have to be round then? So that it swirls the flame? Or do you just arrange the firebricks in a pattern that would swirl it? To mount it, would it need to be close to a tangent in the oilpan, or just aim the burner at it?

[NP317]

Would the oil pan have to be round then? So that it swirls the flame? Or do you just arrange the firebricks in a pattern that would swirl it? To mount it, would it need to be close to a tangent in the oilpan, or just aim the burner at it?

The locomotive crane boiler was a round vertical fire tube unit, with a round firebox lined in firebrick up to the bottom of the mud-ring. The oil burner was aimed toward the center of the brick directly opposite the burner. The fire would impinge onto the brick and swirl both directions around the firebox, providing a long burn path for complete combustion.

Your small boiler might benefit from the oil flame being aimed off to one side, inducing a swirling action in one direction only.
Anyone else have ideas? I have not built such a model boiler.
~RN

[Bill Shields]

you will get much better heat distribution if you don't 'shoot across and bang on the back wall'.

This is especially true the smaller the boiler

an interesting study here

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oilburners11.html