12" working railroad
Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V
Forum rules
Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: 12" working railr
Probably could use 6” PVC pipe. Weld an end cap and thead the other end.
A local live steamer, who passed away a year ago or so, made up a pressure cooker with a low pressure vessel and a small propane fire boiler. Then soaked his ties in cresote and held them under pressure for some length of time- overnight maybe? Maybe a few hours. The steam pressure saturated the end grain and he had a very long lasting bed.
Might be plastic ties are ultimately the answer - for longevity and total cost of ownership.
A local live steamer, who passed away a year ago or so, made up a pressure cooker with a low pressure vessel and a small propane fire boiler. Then soaked his ties in cresote and held them under pressure for some length of time- overnight maybe? Maybe a few hours. The steam pressure saturated the end grain and he had a very long lasting bed.
Might be plastic ties are ultimately the answer - for longevity and total cost of ownership.
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: 12" working railroad
Creosote isn't legal anymore, and being I'm adjacent to "wetlands" I'm likely going to be under the microscope so I think the tinted BLO is going to be my best option unfortunately. I was thinking I could do a cold soak with some low air pressure that would help deepen the stain. I was looking at some of the pipe remnants kicking around and could probably grab a chunk of 10-12" scrap that would fit 4-5 ties, submerge them and give them 10-15 PSI for 5-10 minutes? It's a bit of a conundrum because we have a pole plant in town that could soak them in that greenish stuff they do now, but it's copper based and then the higher conductivity is going to mess with the signal system.
My uncle is a plastics engineer and his motto is "plastic is to sell not to buy" . I hope things have changed and all these ties people are using last at least as long as wood. I think the key is going to be getting a decent coat of stain *into* my wood ties and not having the ties in contact with any dirt. They need to be on a base of CLEAR gravel so they are supported yet minimal moisture is kept against the tie.
My uncle is a plastics engineer and his motto is "plastic is to sell not to buy" . I hope things have changed and all these ties people are using last at least as long as wood. I think the key is going to be getting a decent coat of stain *into* my wood ties and not having the ties in contact with any dirt. They need to be on a base of CLEAR gravel so they are supported yet minimal moisture is kept against the tie.
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: 12" working railroad
Yep, probably right. Any pressure injection will certainly help penetration.
BTW, I suspect the guys pressure cooker system is still available. You could use any preservative with it.
Everybody who uses plastic ties swears by them, as far as I know. However the initial cost is outrageous - around 2x as expensive as wood. Maybe cost efficiencies have brought that down in the past year. If you could get 3x the life out of plastic, it might make sense for a long term approach - say 30year life span. But the upfront cost is still expensive in today’s dollars. The other thing is, plastic ties are usually made for screwing rail down to the surface. I don’t know how long lasting they would be if you cut them half way thru for groovy rail?
Last year I priced out 4x4 cedar ties, in lieu of treated fir. Hoped to achieve rot resistance with cedar. Isaquah Cedar said they would be old growth- so tight grain and rot resistant. However, Ended up buying a stack of cedar 4x4 seconds -mill rejects, from an after market lumber dealer up in Vancouver BC. The load was cheap, but at least half the stack soon split into two or more pieces over winter and many, 50% maybe, got eaten end to end by bugs. Partially my fault as I didn’t stack them with cleats for air circulation. So ended up only being able to use about half the stack. The rest all went into firewood, and the better pieces became a retaining wall, around one curve. They are second growth, so no idea how durable they will be. Like popcorn for The little carpenter ants colonies, apparently. Such is railroading in the modern age....
BTW, I suspect the guys pressure cooker system is still available. You could use any preservative with it.
Everybody who uses plastic ties swears by them, as far as I know. However the initial cost is outrageous - around 2x as expensive as wood. Maybe cost efficiencies have brought that down in the past year. If you could get 3x the life out of plastic, it might make sense for a long term approach - say 30year life span. But the upfront cost is still expensive in today’s dollars. The other thing is, plastic ties are usually made for screwing rail down to the surface. I don’t know how long lasting they would be if you cut them half way thru for groovy rail?
Last year I priced out 4x4 cedar ties, in lieu of treated fir. Hoped to achieve rot resistance with cedar. Isaquah Cedar said they would be old growth- so tight grain and rot resistant. However, Ended up buying a stack of cedar 4x4 seconds -mill rejects, from an after market lumber dealer up in Vancouver BC. The load was cheap, but at least half the stack soon split into two or more pieces over winter and many, 50% maybe, got eaten end to end by bugs. Partially my fault as I didn’t stack them with cleats for air circulation. So ended up only being able to use about half the stack. The rest all went into firewood, and the better pieces became a retaining wall, around one curve. They are second growth, so no idea how durable they will be. Like popcorn for The little carpenter ants colonies, apparently. Such is railroading in the modern age....
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: 12" working railroad
Glenn:
I believe the (a?) supplier of molded plastic ties offers ones designed for Groovy Track!
Perhaps the best of both worlds?
~RN
I believe the (a?) supplier of molded plastic ties offers ones designed for Groovy Track!
Perhaps the best of both worlds?
~RN
Re: 12" working railroad
http://www.eprailsystem.com/project/gro ... road-ties/
This company offers mostly plastic ties for 7.5” gauge groovy track. They also offer switch ties 16”-30” in length.
I guess one could call and ask regarding bigger ties for larger scale railroads.
This company offers mostly plastic ties for 7.5” gauge groovy track. They also offer switch ties 16”-30” in length.
I guess one could call and ask regarding bigger ties for larger scale railroads.
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
John 14:6 (KJV)
John 14:6 (KJV)
Re: 12" working railroad
I have a router fixture for grooving my ties and it goes very quick. I'm not worried about that part all I would need is the plastic bar. That said I've got enough ties to go the first ~225' from the road to the house done and probably another 100+ that are cut but need to be grooved. These are made from DF, so I'm going to treat them with my "soak" as well as play with the recipe a bit and see what happens. I'm in my early 40's and understand maintenance will be part of my large scale model RR so replacing some ties as the years go by isn't the end of the world.
Re: 12" working railroad
They articulate ALOT...I'll probably need to add something to limit travel as I think I could mount ATV tires on this and go rock crawl with it
Tomorrow I'm going to get my dad to help me put the frame up on the bench and sit the body on top of it so it's all upright and easier to work on.
Re: 12" working railroad
We got the frame up on the workbench and sat the body on it, everything lines up great!
This thing is huge, I sat a full size spray can on the walkway for scale. 86" overall minus the couplers.
This thing is huge, I sat a full size spray can on the walkway for scale. 86" overall minus the couplers.
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- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:43 pm
- Location: Barberton Ohio
Re: 12" working railroad
It's really starting to look good!! always thought about building one in 15 inch gauge
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- Posts: 2930
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
- Location: Woodinville, Washington
Re: 12" working railroad
Well, tack weld that thing together and bring it down to Woodinville for a test drive!
Gpb
Gpb
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge
Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Re: 12" working railroad
I wish it was that easy, but there is a lot of lathe work stacking up and plenty more to do:
-Install hydraulic motor mount plates in each truck
-Fabricate muffler and exhaust system
-Fabricate air tanks
-Motor mount plate, actually thinking about using a pair of heavy bars and bolting them across that open space inside the cab. Less weld less warping.
-Wire harness and controls/gages (will mount in riding car)
-Brake drums and shoes
-Install hydraulic system
-Install hydraulic motor mount plates in each truck
-Fabricate muffler and exhaust system
-Fabricate air tanks
-Motor mount plate, actually thinking about using a pair of heavy bars and bolting them across that open space inside the cab. Less weld less warping.
-Wire harness and controls/gages (will mount in riding car)
-Brake drums and shoes
-Install hydraulic system
Re: 12" working railroad
No lists, no progress
Keep building.
~RN
Keep building.
~RN