1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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PhooBar
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1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by PhooBar » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:32 pm

Greetings, forumites.
I am a compulsive restorer of horrible old machines.
Abandoned British motorcycles mostly but any rusty machine tool is fair game to occupy my OCD.
I have previously restored a Delta radial arm drill, Atlas lathe and dozens of abused and forgotten power tools.

So...
When I saw this in the metal scrap bin, I could not resist.
IMG_20190605_155332278.jpg
IMG_20190605_155327039.jpg
IMG_20190605_155313238.jpg
The spindle (the center on the right) spins freely in the housing, so the bearings are still in good shape.
There is a pulley on the back end (far right) that fit a 1/4" round drive belt.
I recovered the small Dayton motor and belt that was used to drive the spindle, it was rust-locked of course.
You can see the broken motor mount in the top two pictures.
The spindle is mounted on a pan and tilt type bracket. There are small degree markings on the mount for both.

No manufacturer ID whatsoever, no letters, serial or part number.

The dead center in the tail stock is a half-male for lubrication and facing purposes I assume.

No internet search has turned up anything similar.

This is either rare and exotic metal-working machinery.
-or-
A bunch of unrelated iron castings, bonded together by rust and neglect.

Most of the rust is superficial. The bed and working surfaces are not beyond recovery.

Any help on ID-ing this gizmo would be appreciated.
Captain of the 1984 Olympic Dumpster Diving Team.

pete
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by pete » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:06 pm

No tool holder of any type so it's for grinding shafts and/or cutting tool flute sharpening? between centers, and likely meant for use on a standard surface grinder. No idea of who manufactured it tho.

earlgo
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by earlgo » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:09 pm

Pete is right. The table is definitely a Delta Rockwell Swivel Table #24-952 and the head is similar to the Delta Rockwell Unihead #24-955, but not exactly the same. Both parts were available for the Toolmaker grinder #24-105 and the later #24-822.
Delta Grinder table.pdf
Delta Grinder Table
(433.09 KiB) Downloaded 53 times
Delta Grinder Unihead.pdf
Delta Grinder Unihead
(439.25 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

pete
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by pete » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:49 pm

Unfortunately and 100% for sure with grinding accessories any rust certainly isn't superficial at all. Grinding is or should be roughly 10 times or better accuracy than the more usual forms of machining. Rust free, fresh paint and re-polished surfaces aren't a restoration if it doesn't equal or better the equipment's original specifications for accuracy. That one's going to be a hell of a lot of work though. And impossible without already having very good surface and rotary grinding capability's. It's quite likely the motor used to drive that was of special construction with very low rpm and precision balanced to remove any motor induced vibrations. If you can pull all that off Phoobar I'm sure most here as well as myself would sure be interested in seeing how it's done.

John Hasler
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by John Hasler » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:00 pm

The flat surfaces, at least, could be restored by scraping. Huge amount of work, though, especially if you've never done scraping before.

Use a DC motor.

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PhooBar
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by PhooBar » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:56 pm

Thanks for the fast response, gents.
Nice to know I've come to the right place.

I'm real patient with such things, pete & John.
Unfortunately, I'm also real slow. I'll try to post some pics after I've got it cleaned up a bit and we'll see how it goes.
Captain of the 1984 Olympic Dumpster Diving Team.

Harold_V
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by Harold_V » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:52 pm

Take note of the notched serrations around the spindle. Most likely used for indexing, a necessary function for cutter grinding.

Half centers are commonly found on grinders---as they provide needed relief for the wheel to exit small diameter parts being ground.

The level of precision for grinders has already been addressed, so on need to make mention, but one thing is a deal killer for this piece---and that's the tailstock. Without access to a grinder, a rigid hone (or internal grinder), how you will be able to restore it so the quill doesn't have excessive clearance is beyond me. Any slop will make it impossible to set taper, a feature that is critical to success with a grinder.

I'm not suggesting that this machine can't be restored, but cleaning off the rust and applying paint will be akin to putting lipstick on a pig. When it's all said and done, it will still be a pig.

That said, it is my opinion that any effort expended on this project will be wasted. That, of course, depends on your objective. If you hope to end up with a functional and reliable grinder, that's not likely to happen. If, on the other hand, you can be happy with a cleaned up and painted machine that struggles to accomplish your intended tasks, I think that's not beyond reason. I am not trying to rain on your parade---just trying to make mention of reality, having operated precision grinders as well as cutter grinders.

Welcome to the board.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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NP317
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by NP317 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:50 pm

I've got a new-to-me steam launch that needs an anchor...
((-;
~RN

John Hasler
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by John Hasler » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:46 am

You could bore out the tailstock, press in bushings, and then turn down the quill to fit. Would never meet factory specs, but it might be usable. I don't have a grinder, though, so I'd repurpose the headstock as an indexer and scrap the rest.

Is the center in the tailstock part of the quill, or just rusted in? Can you get the center out of the headstock? Restoring the tapers could be challenging. If I was restoring it and found that the tailstock center was solidly rusted in I might be tempted to leave it there and treat it as part of the quill even if it wasn't supposed to be.

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PhooBar
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by PhooBar » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:54 am

The only task that I can think of for a stand like this (at least in my garage) would be to grind flaking and pitted chrome off of old motorcycle fork tubes. It's not high precision work, so a cleaned up and reasonably true spinning stand will do just fine.
I'll have a go at lapping the flat surfaces and see how they come out.

Using this stand would keep all that nasty rust and chrome grit off of my lathe bed.

& Thank you earlgo, for those catalog pages! Useful stuff.

Completely Offtopic:
Pulled this out of the same metal bin, two days before.
FcUzGx0[1].jpg
qEeL9JM[1].jpg
Monkey Wards radial arm, mitre saw.
Looks like 60's vintage and barely used.
Took it apart to fit it into my car. Works.
Captain of the 1984 Olympic Dumpster Diving Team.

Magicniner
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by Magicniner » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:51 am

It's rusty scrap until you make it do something useful!

Workingonit
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Re: 1st Post and ofc it's a "What the @%#&! is this" thread.

Post by Workingonit » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:32 pm

I just bought the grinder the that goes to that. would you be willing to sell . I a hobbist this is my first surface grinder so i am not worried about exact percession.

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