6" Baldor Carbide Grinder-Wheels?

[kroll]

Guys I am basically just starting out so over time I am kinda collecting tooling as I need them or feel that I need them. One of the things that I have learn is that carbide inserts are good for me cause grinding is a whole new ball game with as much to learn as turning metal. Well what I have learn is if you want a good smooth finish then HSS is the answer. So I am turning a 1" shaft down to 13/16 using carbide insert but once I get close to finish OD will switch to HHS. Guys I know nothing about grinding, a long distance friend sent me a 1/4 x 1/4 HSS that one end was for roughing and other is for finishing. That piece of HSS bar look so perfect that look like it was done on some kind of machine. So with this in mind and me wanting to achieve that same kind of quality and to be consistent with grinding there is no way I could do that free handed. So I found a used Baldor 6" Carbide grinder that was only missing the drain pans. Yes it has the little miter gage with it. But what I am asking is what wheels should I get for this and what grit? Right now I would like to concentrate on HSS, maybe at later date try those brazed carbide tips. Guys I don't have deep pockets but I don't want to keep buying wheels, so like to buy what is a good brand/quality that will last. So if someone could make suggestions and maybe a link to what you have that you like for your grinder would be fantastic. Any numbers,brands and maybe on auction site,if you know of Youtube that kinda clear up my confusion would be nice. Thanks guys for any guidance on educating me on wheels and HSS

[curtis cutter]

I am no expert by any means on grinder wheels but I suggest learning about some of the safety concerns with wheels and how to properly check them for damage prior to use. Then go into how to make selections based upon the material to be ground. There are plenty of posts on this site and other sites in regard to these topics. Good luck and be safe.

Gregg

[pete]

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=75985

[BadDog]

That "carbide grinder" is a nice piece, but not your best bet.

When I started out here a few years back, I was almost exactly where you describe yourself. There is a post I made about that time where Harold schooled me on the importance of grinding my own HSS. He could not have been more correct, and the skills I buckled down and gained at that time have proven absolutely invaluable to me in the years since. I now have a big powerful and rigid lathe fully capable of using carbide inserts to great effect, and I very often do just that when that is productive. However, I still use hand ground tools quite a bit to provide custom profiles without having to find, buy, and wait for delivery of an insert to do one job.

Do yourself a favor and read Harold's treatise on hand grinding, then start applying the advice. Once you get a few simple points figured out, you'll be starting to see results. And once you gain competence, you'll be MUCH happier and better off for it.

[BadDog]

Here's another important link regarding a vastly improved tool grinder without going to such an expensive solution as that Baldor Carbide Grinder. I have a Baldor 7" bench grinder (still not cheap) that is PERFECT for creating a grinder as described in this link because it uses the common/cheap/varied surface grinder wheels.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=76065

[ChipMaker4130]

Regarding your question on wheel type, those best for carbide are generally not suitable for HSS, and vice-versa. Perhaps your best bet is to put one of each type on either side of your grinder. I use a diamond wheel for carbide (requires coolant), and a regular white wheel for HSS. If your grinder didn't come with the water reservoirs, you can rig almost anything up that will trickle water on the face of the wheel. I assume you have the tilting tables since you mentioned the miter gauge. Without the tables your grinder will be difficult to use.
As for grit, I use a 150 on the diamond and I think the white is 120. Those are 'medium fine' to me.

[whateg0]

What is it that makes this particular grinder not a good choice? It will still run at 3600 RPM and a cup wheel can grind tools as effectively as a normal bench grinder. Though this one appears to be missing the tables, those are great for setting relief if one doesn't want to rely on their eyeballs to get it right.

Dave

[BadDog]

I missed that you already bought the grinder. So yes, you can get 6A wheels in AO or CBN for grinding HSS, and diamond for carbide. The diamond wheels are mostly used for grinding the OLD school brazed carbide bits. Don't even consider a "green" SI wheel, waste of space and money. Unfortunately the options for 6A wheels are nothing like they are for normal wheels (especially 7" SG wheels), and they cost a big premium. And then there is dressing them to deal with. I still recommend considering a bench grinder and make an adapter to mount SG wheels.

I have one setup for carbide, and sometime also touch up carbide inserts, though the results of formed inserts aren't good if you do much alteration (old flat top TPG works well though).

As for what makes one better than another, IMO, it's mainly about options and cost. Those 6A wheels are always expensive. Cup wheels for an SG aren't so bad, but IMO only interesting if you need flat facets. A peripheral wheel like SG and bench grinders use is very easily/economically dressed and produces a slight hollow grind facet, which and be VERY nice when touching up with a diamond hand hone or slip stone.

[Harold_V]

One of the things that I have learn is that carbide inserts are good for me cause grinding is a whole new ball game with as much to learn as turning metal.

I highly recommend you review your decisions. If you shortcut the learning process of grinding tools, you will be held captive eternally. One does not run before learning to walk.

H

[kroll]

This is fantastic guys thanks for taking the time to my questions.Good points all around,I sure like the link to Harold's post about grinding.That is one going to print so that I can read then read again and keep in my box. I been shying away from grinding due to fact just trying to learn the lathe and how to operate it,but it seems that is a mistake on my part. I do have couple grinders but this carbide grinder was wanting to get it setup for HSS for now cause it seems like the finish is better with HSS on final passes. My plan was to get my bench grinder setup to rough to size then move over to the tool grinder that uniform shape on HSS.
I do have the tables

[Bill Shields]

i took a basic grinder and added a tilting table that I purchased in kit form 40 years ago from MES in the UK.

The motor section is a junky HORRIBLE FREIGHT grinder motor that I rebuilt with new bearings, balanced and trued the shaft ends on...yes it was involved but cost a lot less than a Baldor and does a nice job (now)...had i been able to start with a Baldor....

admit some of it is over-kill but it allows me to pull the QCTP off the lathe complete with tool, put it in the grinder and back on the lathe. Shars was having a sale on the QCTP units a few years ago and I think that MAYBE i spent $100 on the two of them.

as mentioned by others -> have different wheels for carbide and HSS.

This picture is carbide tools and the white wheel for HSS (which is what I happened to have mounted to take the picture).

Changing wheels is annoying, but in reality, I do not use carbide much, so the white wheels stays in residence most of the time.

my clunky old flat-belt drive lathes really are not suitable for carbide except under special circumstances.

[BadDog]

I been shying away from grinding due to fact just trying to learn the lathe and how to operate it,but it seems that is a mistake on my part. I do have couple grinders but this carbide grinder was wanting to get it setup for HSS for now cause it seems like the finish is better with HSS on final passes. My plan was to get my bench grinder setup to rough to size then move over to the tool grinder that uniform shape on HSS.

Unless you have a powerful fast lathe (most home shop are not), or you are turning something hard or abrasive, you are probably better served to just use quality HSS bits for roughing and finishing, though not necessarily the same tool (depending on material). That's what I did up until I moved from my Rockwell 11x37 (a pretty stout US made machine for its size) up to a 17x60. The former had a top speed of 1500 rpm, and not much torque when it got anywhere near there, and it's work envelope meshed very well with that of HSS. The later manages 2000 rpm with more torque than I can use, and the limits of removal rates are governed by the tooling vs material rather than the limits of the lathe.

I completely understand the desire to focus on one problem at a time. As I said, I was exactly where you are a few years back, and with the same ideas. And for those same reasons, I didn't really want to hear what Harold had to say, but I knew I was struggling to do what I wanted to do. So I let his experience and reason sway me to take a step back and learn to grind HSS. As much as you want to get on with turning, you are wise to accept the need to learn that skill, and as you begin, I expect that just as I did, you'll realize that really needs to be a higher priority than getting on with turning and making the projects you have in mind. I didn't even know enough to understand the magnitude of how much I was struggling in the beginning, much less why I was struggling. Learning to grind tools was like getting your first pair of glasses and only then realizing how bad your sight was before.

I've never regretted that decision, and even now with a lathe well suited to insert carbide tooling (my first 2 were most decidedly not), it has paid dividends ever since. Now, if I want a specific fillet, a groove, a radiused edge, or a more complex form like a raised bead (and other forms), it's not the slightest bit of a concern. I just grind it for my purpose.

Also, you'll learn that when finish (and edge longevity) really matters, you really want to hone the edge to a fine polish after grinding. Most of us don't have fancy power hones (though they can be made), that means hand honing. And when you do that, you'll come to realize the importance of hollow ground facets.

However, I do now grab negative rake insert tooling for casual day to day tasks. Not because I need insert tooling (most valuable for CNC and production work), rather just because most of my work is with steel, and I'm impatient to complete, so I want high removal rates that would destroy HSS tools. If I still had my Rockwell, or lathes like it, I would continue to use HSS for most work. There are certainly modern carbide (etc) inserts that will work quite well with smaller lighter (typical) home shop lathes, but as mentioned, having everything you might need on hand isn't really practical, so grinding is likely to be part of your life anyway. You might as learn to do that now so that, if for no other reason, you have the understanding to make a wise decision on where to invest your budget.