Poster stats and moving up

[Marty_Escarcega]

A word about post titles like what we all have now, "Chip Sweeper" I can set titles up. I would like you Veteran Machinists to look it over, think about what you did when you started the trade and what crappy jobs to great jobs/positions you had as you moved through your apprenticeship. Here is how they are set now:
0-25 Chipsweeper
25-50 1st Year Apprentice
50-100 2nd Year Apprentice
100-150 3rd Year Apprentice
150-200 4th Year Apprentice
200-300 Machinist
300-400 Tool & Die Maker
500-600 Master Machinist
600 and above Old Hand

Really this gives status to those the support the board and post often. Have fun with this unless you all like it as is.

[Harold_V]

I'd say this is good. Just like in real life, those that participate by contributing will also progress.

The one area that it won't cover, though, is competence. There are those that insist on posting all kinds of meaningless information that is less than helpful for those that are trying to learn. These posters will achieve a level of recognition that is not really representative of their qualifications.

A few that have much to offer and do so sparingly, but with great authority and value to the reader, may not be recognized for their invaluable contributions to the board. Maybe this will encourage them to contribute more often.

One of the failures of these forums can be attributed to the outspoken people that know little but think they know a lot, where they continually speak against good information to the point where knowledgeable posters finally get discouraged and go away. The vocal majority, in many cases those without skills and knowledge, then become the focal point, passing along questionable guidance to others. I don't claim to have a solution, just thought I'd make mention. I've not witnessed much of that here, and for that I thank each and every reader. I'm of the opinion that the readers of this board are a cut above average where manners are concerned.

Harold

[Marty_Escarcega]

Hi Harold. Really it was just a fun way of showing posting statistics. There was some generic stuff and I thought I'd have fun with it.

Actually, I think the bottom line is being respectful of each other's opinions and ideas. That's where I learn a lot. If several folks offer similar advice, I'd say (along with a little common sense) that the advice given was pretty much on track. I think you and the others give great advice. There are some that won't take it. Se la vi. Life is too short to fight battles like that and beat it in their heads. Offer it and let them do what they may with it. I take the advice to better my abilities. I might not hit everything perfectly but if it makes my hobby a tiny bit better than SUPER! If all our personalities were the same, what a boring place it would be.

[Harold_V]

Yep! When I read it from your perspective I can see where you're going with it, and I agree. Now I wish I would have said it slightly differently. Certainly none of the remarks are aimed at the people here, and do not reflect in any way how I've been treated and welcomed on this forum.

Lets approach this from a different perspective, keeping in mind what I had said in the earlier post, because what I meant was there, perhaps poorly stated, however.

Here's the scenario: This poor novice, who has an idea that cars may run better with only two wheels (sort of paints a picture, yes?), looks for information and finds it, posted by another fellow that shares his idea, along with every other hair brained idea in the world. The hair brained poster is prolific, has posted endlessly, but nothing that makes any sense. This guy, by his posts, is a tool and die man, for example.

There's another opinion, one that is against the concept. The guy that posts what's wrong with the idea has low numbers so appears to be the one out of line because his low number of posts show him as a chip sweeper, not a tool & die man, which, in truth, he may be.

In essence, being prolific automatically makes one appear as qualified. If that were the case, I'd have been one of the best qualified guys on RCM two years ago. Hardly worked out that way.

What would be of concern is to tie the number of contributions to a number that would imply experience. A novice that may not know better may look at heavy contributors as if they know more than the guy that really does, but may not contribute much for reasons best known to him. (That rules me out, you can't get me to shut up. I could earn the highest title quickly. Question is: Would I be qualified?)

There must be a different way to show the numbers so that well qualified people don't appear as dopes, and dopes don't appear as well qualified (no offense intended, just trying to paint a hypothetical picture). I think that was my point. Does that make any sense?

The part about being respectful about others opinions. That's what I was alluding to on this forum. One rarely sees the acrimony so common elsewhere. I do think the readers here are respectful, that's why I made my statement. These guys are the best.

Harold

[Jacin]

Hi Harold!
I see exactly your points BUT it is a difficult thing to effectively identify. I think the terms "chip sweeper" and "tool and die man" are really more for humor than to show one's true knowledge. I take the point akin to be just like in the real world - when an "old timer" speaks people usually listen because he has definitely been around the block and certainly his 20 or 30 or 40 or howmany years experience will yield EXCELLENT results - and many times this IS the case - far too many it is not. I refer to my previous comments suggesting there is a difference between 30 years experience and 1 years experience (30 times) meaning each people have worked for 30 years - get it?
Much like in the real world - it will be up to the NEWBIE to sift through his advice recieved and determine who's blowin' smoke off their tool and who's blowing smoke out their a$$.
Heck I post quite a bit lately - but to your point I am but a NEWBIE (and yes I know you didn't mean that as a bad thing) the shear number of posts might suggest I actually know more than I do - but those who are truely paying attention will surely be able to decipher my words versus those of an expert. I know I did - when I read some of your first posts! your name was unfamilar to me - your advice however was speaking far more than familiariy. Each of us makes our "experince" known by our posts - not the number but the content. To incorporate this into the software would (I think) be a huge task! unless of course we ...naw I won't even go there. Besides when some "dufus" gives out shody advice we've got guys like you there to set 'em straight!!! If the fella asking the question ignores your wisdom - he will eventaully see the error in his ways and likely take your wisdom the next time. And if he doesn't - there's probably no helping him anyways <smile>
So in short I think far more people "read between the lines" as far as wisdom goes. At least that's how I take it. Or how I try to. <smile>

[Harold_V]

Hey Jacin,
Yep, you threw a little more light on the subject, sort of snapped me back to reality. I failed to look at this as a fun thing, which it should be, above all.

My big problem is my background. In all my years of machining I was never afforded the luxury of doing things for pleasure, nor to make arbitrary decisions. I was ruled and regulated in every way. It had to be by the book or there were problems. It goes with the territory, much the same way a doctor has to follow prescribed procedures in order to retain his license and practice. Hard to break old habits, and in some ways I don't know that I care to. Thanks to the rigid posture of the work I did, it made a far better machinist of me. Still, some how, some way, I must come to terms with the fact that not everyone is going to be inspected, and that there are no procedure cops with cuffs waiting to find an idiot to haul off. I need to lighten up. I'm thinking it will come with time. To be honest, it's guys like you that are helping, and I thank you for that. Marty, too, has been very good to work at keeping me in line, a daunting task!

I think the most significant point you brought up is: "it will be up to the NEWBIE to sift through his advice received and determine who's blowin' smoke" . Hell, that's true in every day life, too. I'll slowly come to realize that the greatest gift we have as hobbyists is to make our own decisions, and, of course, to be responsible for them as well.

I appreciate your pep talk. Just goes to show how much good can come from this forum when people keep their cool.

Harold

Having read the suggestion to attempt an edit, I am adding this line to my post of Sunday. Yep, it sure does work. Nice feature!

And yet again I'm attempting an edit, the purpose of which is to discover what a sticky post is. Grrrrh. No luck!

[Anonymous]

As the Budweiser Comercial goes...I LOve You MAN !

You have both hit all the nails, on all the heads.

I wish I could have said it too.

I have been posting on Chaski for over 4 years.
I don't want to control the board nor to point it in various directions.
My 40 years+in shops, in all different capacities, gives me the ability to identify problems...many times totally different from others observations. My Motto and belief has always been to help and teach others
I have a hard time at the keyboard ( where,or where, is voice command at ?) so usually answer only when I can type a quick paragraph and to the point.
The problem today IMHO is when the question is sidetracked and 50 replys occur. This steers me away as a lot of guys just want to BS and I am scanning to help a novice
The Chip Sweeper rating system is cool and should stay.
It may lead a Newbie to consider someone as totally competent, but I think it will even out with "peer pressure"

[Marty_Escarcega]

Anonymous, you didn't login so we don't know who you are


Login and save it so you don't have to do it again next session.

[Harold_V]

Yeah, the peer pressure thing may be the key to any concerns. In a way my stand could easily be construed as one of an over sized ego. As if to imply that only old timers with years in the shop can provide any good information, and of course we all know that there are many cases where that simply is not true. A guy can post only so much BS and not be called on it, even when posting to a group such as this, where manners are the best. I must remind myself constantly that this forum is, for the most part, a recreational venture, not one that most folks rely on for their income, thus must achieve perfection. Can anyone see that working under strict conditions for years can change your perspective? Can anyone see that I'm running my mouth simply to put words on the screen? What I'm really trying to do is to find what a sticky post is. so far, no luck [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/mad.gif"%20alt="[/img]

[Rich_Carlstedt]

Sorry Marty
I am the one who failed to LOGIN [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/confused.gif"%20alt="[/img]

Just did it again...have to get use to logging in

[Roger]

Marty, Harold, Rich and others

This is the old discussion about whether we view, believe and rely on information on the basis of who said it, how forcefully it was said, or how logically the reasoning and discussion is. I think most who view and post will not pay much attention to the "title" or number of posts.

Usually if something is said that seems wrong, it attracts attention and gets commented on quickly, no matter who posts it.

Some post often, others "lurk" but contribute clear and insightful information when they have something unique to offer. The old board users always seemed to encourage both. I trust the transfer to this format will not change that.

Great to see the continued interest in this board, it is a tremendous resource for many.

Roger R

ps, Marty, what is with the "Instant Graemlins"? is this a British form of Gremlins?

[gezr]

Dont worry, at this rate youll be an old hand in no time .
but your right in truth it provides a false sence of epitude.
and on the other hand it could just say your a chatterbox.
Either way, its going to be information, a fast feed for one may be a slow feed for another. much like operating systems each person has a place here. with no one being better then another and each serving a particular purpose. I just hope that when I ask questions I get answers that fit what I need to do, I dont think Ill be checking to see where the poster's points are. At home even the old hands have to clean up the messes. Chip Sweepers rule unless you have a good vacume.