One Last Shorty

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

Moderator: Harold_V

Post Reply
User avatar
Steggy
Posts: 1976
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm
Location: JB Pritzker’s Hellhole
Contact:

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by Steggy »

rmac wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:43 pm I always thought of them as genetic experiments.

In the words of a friend from long ago who “accidentally” became a daddy at age 17, “Birth control mishaps.”
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Music isn’t at all difficult.  All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!  :D
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

OVERHANGING LEDGE

Well, kids notwithstanding...damn, everybody should have a million of 'em (not really). Time to move along here.

The next step was to install the signboard. This was made with some 1/4" thick poplar. The board was cut slightly long with the excess to be measured and trimmed off later on. In this case, better to be too long...than a little short. The signboard width was cut wide enough to fill the void from the top of the planked side walls to the top of the car body. There was already some 1/8" thick hobby craft plywood on the top of the side walls used as a stop for the wall planks and spacer for the sign board. When the signboard was glued/nailed in place, it would sit 1/8" above the the wall plank surface. Eventually, the nails holding the sign board would be set and the holes filled with wood put and sanded.

IMG_5864.JPG
IMG_5864.JPG (273.23 KiB) Viewed 848 times

The platform ends that overhang the platforms need to be contoured. When I built cars #5 and #6, made a template for the the overhang contour. No need to reinvent the wheel when a template already existed from earlier efforts. The template was clamped in place using the top of the side wall and end wall as placement references.

IMG_5866.JPG
IMG_5866.JPG (271.62 KiB) Viewed 848 times

The overhang profile is drawn on the sign board overhang.

IMG_5868.JPG
IMG_5868.JPG (266.93 KiB) Viewed 848 times

Once again, out came the hole saw guide to drill/cut the 1" radius hole. A piece of plywood with a few 1" diameter holes served as the starting point for this operation. Otherwise, the hole saw pilot drill would be on the edge of the sign board. Not good. The plywood with previously cut 1" holes acts as a guide for the hole saw. Pilot drill not needed.

IMG_5872.JPG
IMG_5872.JPG (362.57 KiB) Viewed 848 times

After the holes or half holes were cut, a 1" diameter drum sander was used to remove the remaining wood material as the contour profile line is approached. With a coarse sanding drum, didn't take long to sand the poplar wood until the final curve was reached.

IMG_5874.JPG
IMG_5874.JPG (306.73 KiB) Viewed 848 times

Used a handheld saber saw to remove the remaining material and finish with some hand sanding. Was important to sand a gentle curve on the wall top as a piece of 1/4" thick under layment plywood would be "bent" to follow that curve as part of the roof structure.

IMG_5878.JPG
IMG_5878.JPG (241.33 KiB) Viewed 848 times

Next time, we'll start raising the roof. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by NP317 »

My apologies Carl.
I officially return your hijacked thread.
RussN
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

NP317 wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:50 am My apologies Carl.
I officially return your hijacked thread.
RussN
No problem Russ...

Sometimes we need to get side tracked and have some fun before returning to the job at hand. You're forgiven! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

Fiddlin' with the Roof - Part 1

Was going thru my archives trying to select photos that would best illustrate the roof construction. Come to find out, similar to the car body, there's a lot of different subjects to cover just for the roof. Will go thru various aspects needed to fabricate a clerestory passenger car roof.

If you read the thread from several years ago regarding the construction of cars #5 and #6, you might remember that those cars sat idle for several months while I tried to figure out how to construct a roof that hangs out in mid air. When the stars aligned...didn't take long to put things together. Back then, I made several templates to duplicate various parts. As long as car #7 used the same overall dimensions...those templates would come in handy...and save a lot of time. If I missed covering something before for #5 and #6...I'll touch on that this time around.

Now that the windows and signboard were out of the way, the next task would be to close off the car ends over the platforms across the roof overhang extenions. Pulled out a piece of 3/4" thick hobby craft plywood for this. Already had a template for the arch so drew a pair of lines across the plywood and proceeded to the band saw. After the first arch was cut...copied that and made a 2nd arch.

Arches then had a close encounter with a hand held belt sander sitting in a side cradle. The belt sander was used to smooth out the band saw cuts top and bottom. In this orientation, could use the nose of the belt sander to sand the inside curves or arch underside. Would later come back and hold the arches at an angle to belt sand the roof overhang angle...on both top and bottom surfaces.

IMG_5892.JPG
IMG_5892.JPG (291.24 KiB) Viewed 819 times

The roof frame started by pulling out the stock to make the roof ribs. Used some left over pine for the roof ribs. Doubled up on the end ribs...just because I had the material. Several boards were screwed together with long drywall screws. The template traced and the profile was cut out with a band saw. Two pieces of 1/4" thick plywood were cut into strips to fit under the ends of the roof ribs. These were cut long. Can always trim the excess off later using a razor saw. Eventually, will get some 1/8" foam on that plywood underside to act as a "seal" or "cushion" on the top edges of the car walls.

btw...if you're wondering why there's a set of holes drilled near the top center of all the roof ribs...those are to pass wiring thru for the future roof/cabin lighting. Might as well put the holes in early with the drill press before the roof frame gets glued 'n screwed...and there's no room to get a tool in there with a drill bit, hole saw or other.

IMG_5896.JPG
IMG_5896.JPG (278.32 KiB) Viewed 819 times

The roof was starting to look like a roof, but there was nothing to hold the roof ribs in place. Took some 1/2" thick poplar and after cutting to length, made sure I had enough board width to cut the (2) side rails and (1) roof spine. A dado blade was used to cut the slots at the necessary locations. THEN...that board was ripped into the side rails and spine. The boards were marked on one end...so all three pieces would be installed in the same orientation.

Now the end car wall corners were already notched so the side rails would fit down into the car body. A little "wiggle room" was cut into the end wall to allow easy insertion and extraction for the roof rails. When vertically located, the roof overhang contour was transferred to the roof rails. Back at the table saw, that little wedge was cut off...and then glued and clamped on the opposite side or the rail. When the glue was dry and the clamps removed...a couple short finishing nails were driven in. Creating a glued and mechanical joint.

IMG_5899.JPG
IMG_5899.JPG (244.61 KiB) Viewed 819 times

Back on the car, the roof side rails and spine were set in place to check the fit. Drywall screws used to secure the spine had to be shortened so they didn't stick into the wire passage holes. However, before those plywood strips were glued in under the ends of the ribs, the strips were cross cut on the table saw...about 2/3's the way into the plywood. This would allow the ends of the plywood to be curved down later on. For now, glue was spread on the plywood strips at the rib locations and held in place with spring clamps.

IMG_5901.JPG
IMG_5901.JPG (277.24 KiB) Viewed 819 times

Next, the roof rails were glued to the roof ribs and the underside of the plywood strips. When the glue was dry, drywall screws were driven thru the rails and into the ribs after a pilot hole was drilled. Spring clamps were again used between the ribs to hold the parts together until the glue dried. When the clamps were finally removed and the roof frame lifted off the car, the roof was surprisingly light...and strong.

IMG_5903.JPG
IMG_5903.JPG (246.67 KiB) Viewed 819 times

Up to this point, the end arches were held in place via a snug fit (don't ask how many times they fell out). Didn't want to secure those until I was sure there was nothing else to do that would be impacted by that obstruction. With the roof rails secured, was time to cut and fit the 2nd roof arch. The first arch was attached to the car body...the second arch would be part of the roof. The same curve and contour would be followed as done on the first arches.

In the next photo, you can see how the "scored" 1/4" plywood flexes to follow the curvature of the roof rail. After the glue dries, won't have to worry how fragile the plywood was with only 1 ply holding the wood together.

IMG_5916.JPG
IMG_5916.JPG (149.23 KiB) Viewed 819 times

Next time, we'll move the roof along a little further. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
Odyknuck
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:21 pm
Location: Chardon, Ohio

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by Odyknuck »

Simply WoW! Woodworking can be an art and you have mastered it! My brother was a Machinist and also a master wood worker like yourself. If he was alive today, I am pretty sure he would be building cars to pull behind my Mikado.
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

Odyknuck wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:54 pm Simply WoW! Woodworking can be an art and you have mastered it! My brother was a Machinist and also a master wood worker like yourself. If he was alive today, I am pretty sure he would be building cars to pull behind my Mikado.
Thanks Ody...just doing the best I can with what I have to work with. Have seen guys build model trains that can run circles around my efforts. And the model engineers? These guys do things in miniature that I could only dream of. Not to mention...they must have the patience of saints.

After some 35 years in this hobby, have learned how to get a piece of rolling stock to the rail head...AND...present a level of detail that was pushing my limits when considering cost or time. Lucky for me, I've got a few friends that won't let go backwards. They try to get me to "up my game" each time (thanx guys). And for that, fellow hobbyists get to see the results of my efforts. Thanks for the compliment...IT IS appreciated! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

FIDDLIN' ON THE ROOF - Part 2

As we continue with the roof, we'll now work on closing up the overhang opening. Next photo we see what happens when that 1/4" plywood with the cross cuts is pushed down on the roof overhang. This photo was taken BEFORE the top of the end arch was beveled. When that bevel sanding is satisfactory, the bottom of the arch will need to be shortened to line up with the overhang.

IMG_5917.JPG
IMG_5917.JPG (165.04 KiB) Viewed 776 times

Now if you go back and look at the above photo, when that 1/4" plywood was pushed down on the roof rail, there was a 1/4" wide shoulder created on top of the roof rail (and the other side of the car too). Not long after the above photo was taken, the loose plywood ends were glued down and clamped. Those roof rail shoulders would then be used to support the ceiling planks. Leftover wall planks from the side/end walls, with the beveled edges facing down, were used to make the observation deck and other platform ceilings. Ceiling planks were glued on the ends to the roof rails and along the long edge to join the planks to each other and secure the planks to the car roof rib and/or roof end arch.

With the platform ceilings filled in...going to shift attention here for just a bit. We're getting close to "skinning" the roof. But before that could be done, needed to cut the wood for the clerestory windows.

1/8" hobby craft plywood was used. Two strips approx. 2" wide were cut and glued together to span the distance across both end roof ribs. The clerestory windows would be located on the same centers as all the side windows. Therefore, (7) clerestory window openings would be needed. Window centers were marked on the 2" wide strips of plywood. Used the bench mill/drill to cut the openings after establishing the window centers as the 0-0 point and calculating the X and Y axis offsets to cut out the window opening.

Used an 1/8" end mill cutter running at the highest speed possible and held the shop vac hose close by to draw off the sawdust and chips. When one window opening was completed, would shift the entire plywood strip and start the hole cutting process again. Had to be extra careful when handling the plywood strip since there wasn't much wood left after cutting the window openings.

IMG_5908.JPG
IMG_5908.JPG (252.72 KiB) Viewed 776 times

Then, had to check and see how the clerestory window strip would look on the roof. Would set aside these strips of plywood for safe keeping (so they weren't accidentally hit) until it was time to glue them in place.

IMG_5910.JPG
IMG_5910.JPG (242.17 KiB) Viewed 776 times

When the round top side windows were cast, used whatever resin material was leftover to cast more clerestory window frames. Used the same rubber mold as that was used for clerestory windows on #5 and #6. This way, the "look and feel" of the 1st two cars would be maintained on the 3rd car. No sense showing how those windows were made.

When the platform ceiling planks were being installed, a chunk of copper was used as a weight to hold down a piece of reinforcing plywood over the observation deck dome light opening.

IMG_5942.JPG
IMG_5942.JPG (213.82 KiB) Viewed 776 times

The end roof rib stuck down into the observation deck area. Whoops...didn't like that. Would you believe if I said I used the table saw to remove the extending down piece of rib? Marked fore and aft limits on the table saw and raised the blade slightly. Pushed the roof back and forth CROSSWISE over the blade to hollow out the rib. Raised the blade little by little until most of the opening was achieved. Used a drum sander to "dress" the end curves. Can see where some nails were ground off. Obviously, this was done BEFORE before the ceiling planks were glued in place.

IMG_5945.JPG
IMG_5945.JPG (215.44 KiB) Viewed 776 times

A piece of 1/4" plywood was cut, fit and cross cut so it could flex over the top of the roof end arch. This was glued and clamped. This was one of the areas that caused major heartburn on cars #5 and #6. This plywood being installed is part of the roof...but it had to extend slightly BEYOND the car end arch. In the end, the roof covers over the car end arch. Trim would eventually be added to the roof to "hide" that overlap.

When the glue had dried and the clamps were removed, a razor was used to remove the excess plywood on the corners.

IMG_5946.JPG
IMG_5946.JPG (236 KiB) Viewed 776 times

Next time, we'll "form up" the areas over the roof extensions in preparation to close those off. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
NP317
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by NP317 »

Carl:
Those roof sections over the platforms are sculptures!
Tedious and creative. And interesting to see the process.
RussN
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

FIDDLIN' ON THE ROOF - Part 3

During the last epistle, described how the roof structure frame went together and how the roof overhangs were created and getting those overhanging ceilings planked. Moving along...will look at the support structure for the roof ends, and then covering the roof.

As mentioned previously, was a good call when making cars #5 and #6 to create templates for the clerestory roof. Made (2) templates for the high roof and (2) more templates for lower side roof sections. Used the belt sander to "blend" the necessary rib surfaces to the car AND sand tapers to the left or right sides of the car roof. In fact, in the right background in the next photo, can just make out the handheld belt sander in the cradle that turns the tool into a horizontal belt sander. There's a work table surface on the front when trying to sand "near" right angle surfaces. This is not a precision tool or set up...but it works.

The outside "high" ribs were drilled for drywall screws to hold the "low" level side ribs. And when the "high" ribs were ready to be installed, these were screwed from the inside of the end roof strut. All surfaces were glued including including gluing the ribs to top side of the platform ceiling planks. As my motto goes...Built Strong to Last Long! As with most woodworking...getting parts "close" is usually good enough. In particular when internal construction elements get covered over...never to be seen again. Not much different than building a house.

IMG_5953.JPG
IMG_5953.JPG (277.75 KiB) Viewed 716 times

Next, the clerestory plywood window frame wood work is cut to length, brad nail holes pre-drilled, then this piece of plywood was glued and nailed to upper roof section. The 1/4" under layment plywood used for the roof skins were cut to length...left slightly wide as the excess can be removed/sanded off later. Three roof panels are needed to skin the roof. The table saw was set up with a 3/4" space between the fence and blade. Blade height was set to cut 1/2 to 2/3 thru the plywood. The plywood was run over the blade and then turned end for end and run over the blade again. This was repeated for the other (2) roof skins. The fence was moved out 1/2" and the underside plywood scoring process was repeated. Again and again until the entire underside of the plywood was scored. Why? This helps the roof skin "bend" to fit the roof rib curves.

Cut several scrap pieces of wood to make clamping blocks using the same curve as the roof ribs. This would help hold the ends of the plywood until the glue dried. Parallel clamps do not like holding things on curved surfaces. Spring clamps were used elsewhere along the roof edge. Glue was applied to the tops of the roof ribs AND the inside edge of the roof panel where it contacts the clerestory roof window plywood. Otherwise, that clerestory window plywood as no support. More clamps were set in place to hold the plywood until the glue dried.

IMG_5960.JPG
IMG_5960.JPG (252.58 KiB) Viewed 716 times

In short order, all (3) roof skin places are in glued and nailed in place. Looking at the next photo, you can see all the underside cuts made to help curve the plywood. Each time another piece of wood is added to the roof structure, it gets heavier and more rigid.

IMG_5962.JPG
IMG_5962.JPG (208.29 KiB) Viewed 716 times

Back to the roof end ribs. The face surface of the clerestory windows was raised 1/8" when the plywood for the windows was added. Pulled out a previously made template to cut filler pieces. Cut and fit some more 1/8" plywood to raise the side surface of the outboard end roof ribs. Eventually, the nail were set, nail holes and plywood gaps would get wood putty and sanded. The top edge of the plywood filler piece didn't exactly match the clerestory window plywood. No worries, roof edge trim to be added later would hide the offending joint.

IMG_5970.JPG
IMG_5970.JPG (416.38 KiB) Viewed 716 times

Now, time for the roof ends "to go under". Using leftover wall planks, cut enough material to cover up the roof ends (this also used up the supply of plank cut offs to minimize wasted material)...and leave the planks a little long. Excess plank material would be cut off and the edges sanded. Due to the roof curvature, several planks were trimmed during this exercise to fit planks as close together as possible. The back side of these planks were scored on the band saw to allow the planks to be curved. Eventually, nail holes are drill to correspond to the ribs. Glue was applied...nails driven home and set. After the glue dried, the excess plank material was cut off using a razor saw and the plank ends sanded.

IMG_5972.JPG
IMG_5972.JPG (406.17 KiB) Viewed 716 times

The same process was used for the lower roof sections. Planks were marked to show the location of the ribs underneath and pre-drilled for the nails. The backs of the planks were scored to allow for plank curvature. More glue and nails. Eventually, the clamping blocks and spring clamps would be called into service again.

IMG_5986.JPG
IMG_5986.JPG (188.83 KiB) Viewed 716 times

What was once an open roof structure, was now covered. But wait...there's still more roof work ahead. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
ccvstmr
Posts: 2230
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by ccvstmr »

FIDDLIN' ON THE ROOF - Part 4

When we last left the roofers, they were just getting ready to glue and set the roof planks on the lower level clerestory roof ends...4 areas total...one on each roof corner. The planks butted up against the roof skin were nailed first...and then clamped to prevent lifting. Then worked the planks down to the roof end, one at a time. Even with the underside of the planks slit...still took some good clamping force to hold the plank in place until the glue dried. Would come back later and cut off any excess with a razor saw. If any nail poked thru the underside...would grind those off with a Dremel burr.

IMG_5988.JPG
IMG_5988.JPG (235.24 KiB) Viewed 645 times

A palm sander with coarse sand paper came out then to smooth out the worst inconsistencies between the roof planks. Didn't take long to "fine tune" the roof curvature. If any of the nail heads started to get a "shine", they were set once again. Would use a dot of Superglue on each nail head "pock mark" to (hopefully) prevent future nail pops.

IMG_5999.JPG
IMG_5999.JPG (188.48 KiB) Viewed 645 times

Trim time. Starting on the roof ends, cut some 1/8" thick poplar strips about 5/8" high. Wanted this trim to hang down far enough to hide the car body and roof joint. Decided to slit the edge trim on the top this time (could have put the slits on the bottom). Thought it might be easier to "spread" the finger slits on top instead of "squeeze" the slits if those were on the bottom. Nail holes were drilled and nails inserted. This would get a little messy between the time the glue was spread, the first few nails were set and then worked the trim piece around following the curvature of the roof. Later on, would come back and fill the slits with wood putty...set the nail heads...add a dot of Superglue and sand.

IMG_6019.JPG
IMG_6019.JPG (214.6 KiB) Viewed 645 times

Then end face trim was cut flush with roof sides. The same procedure was used to apply edge trim along the length of the roof. Cut dshorter pieces to start on the ends, make the curves, and then used a long straight piece that was "cut into" the pieces just installed. Due to the shorter radius compared to the end of the car, the slits were cut closer together. More nails were used to hole the trim in place. When the glue was dry, nail heads were set, wood putty applied and when the putty was dry, sanded the roof trim.

The edge trim for the upper roof would wait. Why? After Bondo was spread on the lower roof areas to fill the gaps, need to sand the Bondo smooth up against the clerestory window wood work. The upper level edge trim would get in the way of the sander.

IMG_6023.JPG
IMG_6023.JPG (229.05 KiB) Viewed 645 times

Bondo was mixed up. Can never properly estimate the amount of material needed for a given area. Estimating the amount of hardener to add is equally tricky. Once the hardener was added, worked quickly, mixed and spread Bondo on the ends of the lower roof sections. Any left over Bondo was spread on the upper roof section. No need to waste this stuff.

IMG_6082.JPG
IMG_6082.JPG (213.31 KiB) Viewed 645 times

Bondo cures fast. And the more hardener added, the faster it sets up. If you don't use the Bondo fast enough...you end up throwing it away. After waiting an hour (longer than really needed), put the palm sander to work to sand smooth. If some of the surface wasn't satisfactory, would repeat the Bondo application and sanding process. Whenever there was leftover material, simply spread that on another area of the roof to fill in the plywood grain or other "low areas".

IMG_6083.JPG
IMG_6083.JPG (244.94 KiB) Viewed 645 times

Next time, we'll finish up on the upper clerestory roof as we inch closer to the final roof construction steps. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
User avatar
Harold_V
Posts: 20231
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: One Last Shorty

Post by Harold_V »

Damn, that's some nice work, Carl.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Post Reply