Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

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Bill Shields
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by Bill Shields »

Threading 3d printed material is a no no...no matter who does the printing, so your comment is not surprising.

I once had marginal success thread milling the stuff with a CNC machine and a 2mm thread...but it was very worrisome and slow and not what I would call a clean looking job after it was over.

Shapeways generally does good work, and they have been at it long enough to know what their service is worth.

It is the old adage of purchase a machine and......see what it costs.

There are a few people in the live steam hobby/ business using the services of these casting companies who may well be willing to supply the names of companies they do (and will not) use.

After that, just having the casting is only a small part of the equation. You still have to fixture and machine it.

The smart folks toss out the hook to see how many fish are biting before they make the time and $ investment.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
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SPSteam2491
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by SPSteam2491 »

apm wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:27 pm Now is there an affordable shapeways service that anyone has found yet where you can upload these files to and have the parts 3d printed to wax and then investment cast?
When you order brass or bronze (not the steel material) from Shapeways, that is what they do. The brass can be machined, drilled, tapped, etc easily. I have not tried the bronze material. Yes it is a more expensive that the steel (sintered powder) but that stuff is hard to work with.

You can easily source the filament for printable wax to go in a 3D printer (provided the printer has the ability to print that material). Some local foundries will take that 3D print, attach it to a tree, and cast it for you in your desired material. Finding those foundries is the hardest part and those that do have a source are usually keep that information close. Worse thing someone can tell you is no, so it never hurts to ask around.
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by Greg_Lewis »

For something like this, if you can get the wax, try Valley Brass and Bronze, in Fresno. They do lots of HO and O scale lost wax and have done castings for some of us if it will fit into their flasks. http://tracksidedetails.com
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amadlinger
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by amadlinger »

Hi all,

The machining problems that Bill and others cite are true about the DMLS and binder jet options (where the 3D printer is truly printing out the metal part itself, often from powdered metal), but exactly as John mentioned the "brass" and "bronze" options from Shapeways come back as lost wax castings with none of those issues...they can be machined and worked with exactly the same as any other lost wax casting you've used.

I have had several parts made this way, but Shapeways is not the only game in town and it turns out that they are often the most expensive. Check out the "brass" and "bronze" options on Sculpteo and iMaterialize, I have had success with both outfits. Craftcloud is another outfit that may be worth a try, they act as a broker for 3D printing providers; I have not tried them yet, though.

Sincerely,
Adam
apm
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by apm »

amadlinger wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:41 am Hi all,

The machining problems that Bill and others cite are true about the DMLS and binder jet options (where the 3D printer is truly printing out the metal part itself, often from powdered metal), but exactly as John mentioned the "brass" and "bronze" options from Shapeways come back as lost wax castings with none of those issues...they can be machined and worked with exactly the same as any other lost wax casting you've used.

I have had several parts made this way, but Shapeways is not the only game in town and it turns out that they are often the most expensive. Check out the "brass" and "bronze" options on Sculpteo and iMaterialize, I have had success with both outfits. Craftcloud is another outfit that may be worth a try, they act as a broker for 3D printing providers; I have not tried them yet, though.

Sincerely,
Adam
I would be curious to see what the parts discussed earlier would cost to have done at some of the other sites you listed above? Any chance someone could post what they are charging these days?

Last I tried uploading some parts I wanted to shapeways The price came back as stupid money and then they're sintered and unmachineable. Especially when you consider what people are doing with a $300 resin printer to make their waxes I don't understand why the service is not more affordable? Otherwise what is the going rate that one should expect to pay if they provide the wax for the foundries to do the casting in bronze or aluminum? How do they typically charge? I have a few parts I've had kicking around in my mind but I've never found an affordable way to get them done and setting up a home foundry still seems to be away off.
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by Greg_Lewis »

apm wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:55 pm ...

Otherwise what is the going rate that one should expect to pay if they provide the wax for the foundries to do the casting in bronze or aluminum? How do they typically charge? I have a few parts I've had kicking around in my mind but I've never found an affordable way to get them done and setting up a home foundry still seems to be away off.

You might contact Valley Brass and Bronze, that I mentioned in my post above. Those who have used them have been satisfied.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
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Fender
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by Fender »

One possible way around the problems with trying to thread the sintered steel parts from Shapeways would be to drill and then silver solder a threaded bronze or stainless bushing into the part. Has anyone tried this? One would need to get the part hot enough to melt the silver solder, but stay below the melting point of the bronze in the printed matrix. An alternative (depending on temperature and strength requirements) would be to soft solder the bushing in place. I know of someone using the soft solder method on a steam siphon printed by Shapeways.
Dan Watson
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by Greg_Lewis »

Fender wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:29 am One possible way around the problems with trying to thread the sintered steel parts from Shapeways would be to drill and then silver solder a threaded bronze or stainless bushing into the part.
...

Or just have the part printed with the hole the size needed for the bushing.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
phil davis
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by phil davis »

Stainer engineering in New Zealand, Michal Jack. Offers great professional service, you provide the drawing, he will make the wax and have it cast.
Soot n' Cinders
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by Soot n' Cinders »

One word of warning on Shapeways, be prepared for sticker shock. My steam siphon used to be $78 to print in the bronze steel mix, and thanks to their price increases over the last two years it's now up to $150. The situation is even worse for the cone I had printed for my Radley-Hunter stack.

That being said, those prints do take both silver and soft solder very nicely. So while it's a pain to drill or tap you could easily solder in a threaded bushing.
-Tristan

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amadlinger
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by amadlinger »

Hi all,

For those who may not know, Shapeways is just a middleman for the bronze/steel mix prints that folks are mentioning. ExOne out of the Pittsburgh, PA area is the actual manufacturer. If you drill down on the technical details of that material on the Shapeways page, you eventually get to a spec sheet with ExOne's name on it.

All of this is to say that you can order 3D prints in this material directly from ExOne, with many more options available, and at a *significantly* reduced part price and without the surcharges that Shapeways imposes. By way of comparison, I recently had a part made by ExOne for $162.45 + $10 for QA inspection to assure that the dimensions would be <+/-1% with a lead time of 10 days. The EXACT SAME part via Shapeways would have been $319.04 + $19.14 "processing fee" with no guarantee on accuracy and with a lead time of 4 weeks.

And by the way, ExOne contacted me to tell me that the first print didn't meet the 1% tolerance spec (they provided the results from the coordinate measuring machine that they used to QA/QC their first try), so they were reprinting it again at no extra cost and they still delivered it on time. I was very impressed.

Sincerely,
Adam
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Re: Nathan double top check boiler feed valve

Post by rrnut-2 »

Adam, that's good to know. However, I had to order the parts from Shapeways because one of the contributors was on their site. I tried
to contact the designer, but no avail. I just ordered one of the parts for the Cole-Scoville trailing truck and it was $834. I do plan to make molds and get the next ones cast.

Jim B
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