LE 1 inch scale 060 Rebuild

[NP317]

Looks like time for a new steel boiler.
Especially if you are sitting behind it with your legs spread.
RussN

[Bill Shields]

Tough to believe that someone did a steel boiler with sil phos...

[Harold_V]

Doesn't look like steel to me. The color on my computer leans towards it being bronze. Could it be?

H

[Bill Shields]

I hope so, but on my phone....

[Marty_Knox]

Hi Bill,
Looks like the OD is 5-1/2". In the thread http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... &start=12 Marty mentions X-raying one of these fireboxes. I may do this if I can find someone nearby who can do for not too much $.
SteveR

Steve, when I X-rayed the firebox casting I was taking a class in Radiography. It was one of my projects in the class, so it didn't cost me anything.

[SteveR]

Hi Harold ,
The colors are a bit tough to discern in the pictures - The firebox, steam dome and smokebox tubesheet are a kind of pinkish color that really look more like they are more copper than bronze. Here's a pic with a piece of phosphor-bronze sheet and some brass bar stock for comparison. The shell over the front of the boiler looks like brass tubing.

colors.jpg (96.04 KiB) Viewed 2868 times

The solder joints are interesting in that the joints around the tubes look perfect; nice fillets and no excess solder. Then on some of the cracked areas, the solder looks like it was just glopped on - maybe previous repairs?

Marty,
I would do it more for knowledge for knowledge's sake if not too expensive. Digital X-ray technology is pretty common, it's just the size of the part and the voltage needed for looking through such a thick piece that might be a challenge. If it doesn't work out, oh well - I see disassembly of some kind or another in its future anyway. It's a historical bit of live steam history in any case.

I built a crate for it yesterday to send to Godshall's to have him make a new one of the same size.

Here is a link to a very detailed story of building a copper boiler - way above my pay grade:
http://livesteam.sakura.ne.jp/C53_202004e.htm

Now I understand why Martin Lewis wanted a cast firebox.

In the 1967 LE Catalog, page 9 says some 1-1/2" engines use a firebox casting made from "M" metal. This could be "C92200 Leaded Tin Bronze, Navy M" found here https://www.atlasbronze.com/C92200-Prod ... s/1908.htm.

In the same catalog on page 59 is a photo of the internals of my casting. On page 58 it says "With this casting and a day's work, You have a boiler...it takes us just 11 man hours..."

SteveR

[Old England]

Back from getting cleaned up at the sand blasters. Much improved and much easier to leak check.

boiler LHS.jpg
In the picture above, you can see the one and only blowdown valve.


boiler RHS.jpg

In the picture below, the bolt at the bottom is soldered in place.
backhead after SB.jpg

FB sheet after SB.jpg

mud ring after SB.jpg

A cast firebox is a whole new concept to me over here in the UK. I can see the attraction for a rapid build but sounds like a bundle of trouble a few years down the line. Were they very popular?

[Harold_V]

Hi Harold ,
The colors are a bit tough to discern in the pictures - The firebox, steam dome and smokebox tubesheet are a kind of pinkish color that really look more like they are more copper than bronze. Here's a pic with a piece of phosphor-bronze sheet and some brass bar stock for comparison. The shell over the front of the boiler looks like brass tubing.

Thanks for the clarification, Steve. It was clear to me the color of the cast firebox indicated copper, or at least a high copper content. It was the shell over the front of the boiler that I suspect Bill thought was steel. It's clearly yellow on my screen.

I found the long cracks interesting. Makes a guy wonder why? Those materials tend to be ductile and not prone to cracking.
H

[Bill Shields]

Case fireboxes were marketed back in the 1960's (maybe a bit later) but pulled because of failures.

Harold...you are correct about the rusty whatever..but in reality, the colors on my phone are crap -> and I have been commissioning a new laptop computer and not been using it for chaski for a week or so.

[Pontiacguy1]

LE Only had that cast firebox available for a couple of different locomotives, I think. They had it for the 1 1/2" scale American and the 1 1/2" scale 4-2-4 CP Huntington, which are both based off the same castings and use mostly the same parts. They also had one for the 1" scale 0-6-0. I believe those were the only locomotives that had the cast bronze boiler setup available. I had heard they had intended to offer more at first. Yes it was done to save time and hopefully money too. The problem was that it was so very difficult to cast that there were usually weak spots, sand holes, bubbles, etc... I've heard of people that used up lots of brazing rods to fill voids and repair leaks in the casting. Some could not be repaired. They only offered these for a few years. If I recall correctly, by the early to mid-1980s, they had pulled them off the market.

[Mike Walsh]

I agree with the above. If you can, replace the boiler. I'm currently working on a copper boiler without cast components, and let me tell ya, that is a royal pain... I am so stoked to start working on a new build copper boiler after that!

[SteveR]

While taking the boiler off, I mentioned that I had to cut the throttle and blower lines at the backhead. But to get the smokebox off, I had to cut the throttle lines again where they went into the steam chests.

cut steam lines.jpg (90.41 KiB) Viewed 2632 times

Problem was, when I tried to cut the left (right side in the picture) side, the tubing just slipped off the threaded portion on the cylinder block.

uh oh - broken nipple.jpg (85.34 KiB) Viewed 2632 times

Put some liquid wrench on the threads for a couple of days and then with an eazyout.

eazyout nipple.jpg (64.98 KiB) Viewed 2632 times

Got lucky this time. The other side was pretty easy to unscrew after soaking in Liquid Wrench for a couple of days.

remove nipple2.jpg (53.61 KiB) Viewed 2632 times

SteveR