Lights are on, but nobody's home

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Mark D
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Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Mark D » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:13 am

What happens when nobody has anything to say? Dead silence. I'd like to add something to the forum, but can't think of anything. I'd like to say something about that diesel engine the Friends of the 261 acquired, but I haven't seen it and don't even know where it is.
I was at the locomotive shop a couple of weeks ago to take some measurements on a small bore on an air pump, but that's not exactly earth shattering.
I promised I would be there this coming Thursday and so I will be there. They want me to take some measurements on something. I guess nobody else knows how to operate a tape measure. :-(

Mark D.
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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:16 pm

Well... okay, I'll add something to the board, but I am sort of off topic. Your mention of nobody knowing how to use a tape measure reminded me of this...

There is an adage (I assume an old one) that I used to hear a lot on a PBS TV show...

"Measure twice, cut once."

What does that mean to you?

I will delve deeper into my cogitations on it after some people have a chance to reply.
Semper Vaporo,
Charles T. McCullough


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Fitz
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Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Fitz » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:03 pm

Charles, to me, it means if you measure twice you will be sure that your measurement is correct. IF the first two differ, do it again. Do NOT cut until you are sure that your measurement is correct. That philosophy had to apply to just about everything we did in the flight test business, otherwise people were going to be injured or killed. I guess that was in my generation, seeing what the Boeing 737 Max is suffering. Should have been discovered and corrected in flight test.
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Mark D
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Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:01 pm
Location: Sort of between Litchfield and Forest City, MN.

Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Mark D » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:04 am

Knowing better, I still like to switch that old adage to; Measure once, then cut to fit.
Mark D.
Mark D. - The bottom of the information curve

Mark D
Conductor
Posts: 3310
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:01 pm
Location: Sort of between Litchfield and Forest City, MN.

Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Mark D » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:20 am

Fitz wrote:Charles, to me, it means if you measure twice you will be sure that your measurement is correct. IF the first two differ, do it again. Do NOT cut until you are sure that your measurement is correct. That philosophy had to apply to just about everything we did in the flight test business, otherwise people were going to be injured or killed. I guess that was in my generation, seeing what the Boeing 737 Max is suffering. Should have been discovered and corrected in flight test.

I think that in the case of the B-737 MAX's it isn't about measuring, rather failure to fully test the entire realm of the way overboard autopilot.
Worse yet, Shady airlines don't train their cockpit crews properly. It seems they are taught to get the aircraft rolling, climb out and set the autopilot. Those crews who 'augered' in did not have the training to turn off the autopilot. That fancy term they have (I forget what that is, but I've heard and read it) for enhancing the autopilot should not have been enough for them to crash.
I say that because I have read of two different crews on two different airlines who also experienced the same loss of pitch control. But being better trained and probably more experienced they did what would be totally obvious even to me, a lowly private pilot, would have immediately shut off the pilot. Once things are stable, I would try it again. Once at cruise altitude I'd bet it would work just fine. Or, if it doesn't turn it off, and go by whatever the airline dictates to their pilots in a control situation. Either finish the flight manually or turn around and land manually.
Apparently those to cases I read about, one in the USA and one overseas. It is not revealed whether either of those crews reported it at the time. It came out in the news later.
I feel very sorry for those poorly trained crews - one first officer (copilot) had only 200 hours total flight time. That's barely enough to get a private pilot license!

Mark D.
Mark D. - The bottom of the information curve

Charles T. McCullough
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Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:34 pm

Mark D wrote:Knowing better, I still like to switch that old adage to; Measure once, then cut to fit.
Mark D.


No, no, no... it is "Measure twice, cut once, and buy another board."
Semper Vaporo,
Charles T. McCullough


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Fitz
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Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Fitz » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:49 pm

Mark, you are right about the lack of training. That accident in San Francisco a few years ago was a classic case of pilots really didn't know how to fly the airplane.
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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:18 pm

Well... you can't say I didn't warn you that I'd expound on my cogitations later. It do seem to be later now.

As I stated earlier, "Measure twice, cut once" as an adage is somewhat incomplete in actual practice. Thus I found it necessary to make an addition to it... "Then buy another board."

My firm belief is that the original adage means, "Know how to measure."

My usage has always been in relation to trim carpentry. You measure twice and cut once. The first of the 'twice' measurements is when you determine how long a piece of trim is to be, by measuring where it is to go. The second of the 'twice' measurements is when you mark the trim board for cutting. Then you cut the board... assuming you know how to measure, there should be no need to measure more than twice.

Besides, when I measure more than once to determine the length of a board... I never get the same value in any pair of tries to measure. I, quite frankly, don't know HOW to measure. My mentor (father) in these endeavors would ask me how long a trim piece was needed and I'd get up on the ladder and measure the place... say I'd get 37&1/4 inches. I'd get down off the ladder and tell him what I got. He'd say, "Are you sure?" I'd get back up the ladder and measure again. Maybe this time I'd get 37&1/8 inches. I'd take my tape measure down. then put it back in place and measure again. 37&3/8 inches. Try it again and get 37&3/16, or 37 even, or 37&7/16. Dad would stare at me. I'd get down and he would pull out his folding rule, step up on the ladder and measure. Then he'd get down, mark the board, cut it and hand it to me. I'd get up on the ladder and nail the board in place and there would be no gap at either end, nor any bowing as I put it in place. PERFECT length.

I am now 73 and my mentor has been gone a long time. But I now only measure twice... I measure where the board is to go, add one inch, cut the board once, try it in place, cut the board again, try it again, cut it again, try it again, cut it once more, and then go buy another board.

I did learn a new trick, though, that has saved me a lot of money. Once the board is too short to fit, I cut it in half, nail up the two sections hard against the outer ends of where it goes, then cover the gap in the middle with some decorative plaque or keystone. Yes sir! Those little decorative elements are often a wee bit cheaper than a whole 'nother board!
Semper Vaporo,
Charles T. McCullough


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Mark D
Conductor
Posts: 3310
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:01 pm
Location: Sort of between Litchfield and Forest City, MN.

Re: Lights are on, but nobody's home

Postby Mark D » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:55 am

The downside of your method is that the last cut seems to always make it just a tad too short. It's always Mr. Murphy that causes that.
Mark D.
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