Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

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Mark D
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Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:28 pm

There will be a test on this. Just kidding
More to come soon, but only if someone reads this and replies that they would like to know more about it.
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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:46 pm

My son made a comment about it once a long time ago... it had nothing to do with a Steam Locomotive, so I didn't pay much attention.
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Mark D
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:27 pm

HI Charles
What does your son do? Does he build engines? Or hot rods in some way?
Google 2014 Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge.
I'll be getting back on it.
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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:35 pm

He is more shade tree mechanic... with aspirations that are throttled by life's circumstances. He has done a few engine rebuilds and swaps and knows a lot about engines, but does not have the time or machine skills (or the machinery) to go about modifying engines. He'd like to, and follows a lot of 'industry' on-line and that is where his comments about AMSOIL and the Engine Master's Challenge came from. But it was mostly blue sky desires. I vaguely remember looking at photos and such from one of the yearly meets, but I don't even remember when that was. He is now off on a tangent, working on BOATS. (BLEAH!... not even steam driven yachts, just pontoon pleasure/fishing boats).
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Mark D
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:03 pm

Pontoon 'boats' don't qualify as boats. I call them pontoon barges.
If he's playing with true fishing boats, like offshore twin diesel 50' or bigger boats, now THAT's cool! Steam powered yachts is even more cool - and would be very rare. A 14 foot Alumacraft with a 9.9hp outboard motor can provide a lot of pleasure out on the lake while you drink beer while thinking you might get something edible on the end of the line you have hanging in the water, but they don't qualify as 'cool'.

What many of the competitors at EMC do is establish a 'team' that is made up of people in the trade. They get an expert in porting science for cylinder head and intake manifold work, for instance.
They find a sponsor to help with the costs. Anyone who's on the 'team' has to have something to add to the program and because they're on the team, they don't charge for their work. But they do enjoy the publicity if their engine does well. Publicity for professional porting companies is always good.

I'll be back.
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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:05 pm

Not many "off shore" type boats in North Dakota!
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:07 pm

The Amzoil /Popular Hotrodding sponsored Engine Masters Challenge has been going on since a long time. I don't know when it started, probably around 2002 or 2004. I'm not spending time doing research. The typing on a key board I'm about to do will be plenty enough time. Suffice to say, it is the Winston Cup of engine builders. That's not really a stretch. Although nobody is running around a race course, the competition is stiff and the finishers are very close to each other. To finish first is to win, to finish second is to be first loser.
I became aware of EMC about ten years ago through my son who was following it every year with much more than passing interest.
He wanted to build an engine and compete just to see how he could stack up with the premier engine builders in the country.
In the fall of 2012 he got his wish. A friend of a friend sponsored the cost of building an engine specifically designed to compete at EMC. The one stipulation was that the engine had to be a Pontiac. Reason? Because the guy is a Pontiac enthusiast and collector. His intent would be to install the engine into a 67 - 69 GTO. Specific car not yet determined.
Cost to build the engine is not revealed here, but you can say it was very costly. Many custom made parts were used. There was not one single actual Pontiac part used. The block is cast by Kauffman. It is based on and looks like a 428 Pontiac engine. But it is a far stronger block than GM ever dreamed about in those days. The heads were by Edelbrock, purchased as raw castings so that they could be machined and ported for this specific application.
That's just the basics.

There are rules at the EMC. One rule for the 2013 'show' was that if the engine originally came with shaft rockers, it had to use shaft rockers. If it came originally with stud mount rockers, it had to use stud mount rockers.
This was a strong disadvantage for the Pontiac engine because it came with stud mount rocker arms.
The problem with that was the location of the valves in the redesigned heads. The valves were shifted in location. Studs don't allow for offset rocker arms to work the valves in their new location with the lifters in their original design location.
Well, we (I was involved in this entire project) worked it out, but the whole setup was pretty sketchy. Running the engine to 7500 RPM with pushrods (that had to be very thin because of space problems) flexing and flopping with each valve opening and closing. We were breaking lash caps left and right at first because of this. The rocker arms were specially made with an offset, but they were still only touching the valve stem about half way.
It rattled and clattered, but we made good power. On dynamometer testing we used the same calculations that the EMC uses to determine score. We saw that we had a good chance of making it into the top 5, which isn't all bad even if you don't actually win the #1 spot. But even making the top 10 is pretty good.
Contestants are competing against well known race engine builders such as Tony Bischoff and Jon Kasse, among many others. Think NHRA and NASCAR.

Well, due to work and a choo choo trip in October 2013, I was unable to attend the actual event in Lima Ohio. It is held as University of Northwestern Ohio.

The engine performed very well there, but couldn't really compete with some of the imaginative improvements some other builders had come up with. Mostly, though, it was the 4 valve engines from Ford that took the top spots.
In the end, our Pontiac engine finished in 9th place. That means it beat 31 other contestants. Not bad for a first attempt.

Son was already planning for the 2014 show during the long drive back from Ohio in 2013.

The same Pontiac platform would be used. He waited for the 2014 rules to come out before really making up his mind.
But when the rules came out, he found that there was a good chance of hitting the top 5.
The rules had expelled the 4 valve engines, for one thing.
Another rules change now allowed shaft rockers to be used on any engine.

Other parts of the rules stayed the same. Engine had to be a minimum of 400 CID for instance, and parts must be available for anyone to buy if they want to build a similar engine. The list is long. Rules can be found with a basic Bing or Google search for Engine Masters Challenge rules 2013 or 2014. Rules for 2015 will come out in late January.

I will be back with the story of the 2014 EMC. What we did, how it went. I did get to go this time. I'm ready to go again if all the stars align just right.

Mark D.
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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:02 am

Marvelous... can't wait for the next installment!

Great joy to be doing something with your son, too!

I have done stuff with my two sons and my daughter and there is no greater fun time, (no matter what the project is!)
Semper Vaporo,
Charles T. McCullough


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Mark D
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:35 pm

Here is PART TWO It is long. Part 3 might be just as long.

EMC Part 2
So the EMC 2014 rules came out and Throttle, (son's nickname in Fargo) decided he could get serious power from that Pontiac. He knew he was losing close to 30 hp just with that hinky valve train alone. Plus, he knew he could do better than the intake manifold we had used, an off the shelf Edelbrock that had been worked over by team member Chad Speier, of Speier Porting. (I think that's the name of his business) The problem was that it was a downflow intake designed for carburetors. A very nice design and Chad's port work was second to none, but during dyno testing the graphs had shown that he could get more airflow from a better induction system. His plan for this year (2014) was to use a front mount, horizontal, throttle body (I forgot to mention that in 2013 it was port fuel injection, the injector ports had been added to the intake manifold by Chad Speier)
He sat down and created a rough design for a new intake manifold the like of which had not yet been seen in aftermarket applications. He would have to have it custom made for him, and that whoever made it would have to have an internet catalog to display it to the public to meet the rules that major component parts had to be available to anyone who wants to buy one.

So, he contacted an outfit in Troy, Michigan called Performance Design. They said, in effect, yeah, sure, we can make that! But it should have a few little changes in design to make it work better.
They sent their design ideas to Throttle, he looked at it, decided that's a good idea, got back to them and gave them the go-ahead to build this intake. It consisted of three major components. A lower plenum, a center section for joining the lower plenum to the uppper plenum and the upper plenum. This intake would flow air as much as the engine asked for, so there would be nearly no limitation on air flow.
The lower plenum would be milled out from a chunk of billet aluminum. A large undertaking. The upper plenum would be carbon fiber. The center section would also be cut from billet aluminum.
The insides will remain unmentioned at this time. You're going to see a lot more of this style intake manifold in the future.

Performance design excels in prototype work. They did a lot of the design work for GM on some of their major hi performance engines, including the newest version of the Z06 Corvette.
Time went by, summer came and went, and they hadn't produced an intake. They kept making promises. They had other work, this and that, and finally Throttle got firm with them. We were less than a month away from D day at EMC and there was no intake.
Dyno testing had to start, so we started without them. During the week of dyno testing (September 28 - Oct 4 2014) without the new intake. We did the best we could with last years intake and a couple others he thought might work better. They didn't.

Notice that September 28 I was coming back from Duluth with the 261. We got the train all put away and the engine ready to go in the house around 12:30 AM Monday morning.
I drove home for an hour and a half or so, slept for a few hours, went to work Monday and Tuesday, and early Wednesday headed out again for Menahga, MN. where the dynamometer is. We started testing. We had a lot of test and tune to do over the next few days. We had to be at the show no later than 10:00 AM the next Tuesday!

But still no 'secret squirrel' intake manifold.

In the meantime, we tested headers, four different camshafts, three different intake manifolds, two flywheels and various settings of timing and mixture and cam settings.
We found that the headers that Throttle had built over the early part of the summer gave us a roughly 10 hp increase on the top end over the headers he had used last year, which he also built. With that 10 hp increase at the high end, the decision was made to use the new headers.
The one thing we could NOT test was the mufflers that are used in Lima, Ohio at the EMC. In the dyno room in Menahga, there simply wasn't enough room to mount the mufflers into the exhaust system. So all our testing was done without the mufflers.

Meanwhile, back in Troy Michigan, the guys there managed to crash their CNC mill and destroyed the spindle. They said it would be at least a month to fix it.
Throttle read them the riot act, mainly telling them they had one day to get that thing made. (this all happened that previous Monday)
He suggested they make it with a 3D printer, out of plastic, since they couldn't mill it out anymore. They whined that it would take days, and blah blah.
But they did it. On that Friday, after we were pretty much done testing, the lower plenum arrived along with the center section. But it wasn't going to work without the upper half.
They said that would come the next day. Friday the lower plenum arrived late afternoon.
It needed to be painted Pontiac blue, and it had to look GOOD!
There is a body shop next door to Torvinen's engine machining and repair, the location of the Dynamometer.

PLUG HERE FOR RANDY TORVINEN - ONE OF THE TOP ENGINE MACHINISTS IN THE COUNTRY.
TRUST ME, I'VE SEEN HIS WORK.

The lower plenum was brought to the body shop and the paint to use was supplied by Throttle.
They painted it that day, it looked good, but had to sit overnight to cure. That was okay simply because we couldn't use it anyway without the upper half.
The next day, Saturday, the upper half arrived via Fed Ex next day air. The upper half needed to have several coats of clear applied, along with some decals but we needed to test it first.

So, we assembled and mounted the intake on the engine.
I don't recall the exact power and torque numbers or the curve. I could get them from Throttle, but not necessary for this narrative.
However, the result was, in doing the math that is used at EMC for scoring, this intake, just by swapping it in for the one used last year gave us nearly a 100 point increase in our score!

We now KNEW we were easily into the top 5. It was now Saturday afternoon. We had to get the engine off the dyno, we had to clean up our mess. We had to mount the engine on the transport cart and load it into the truck along with the tool cart and all the boxes upon boxes upon boxes of parts, supplies, etc. Throttle had to get back to Fargo and into his own engine shop to tear down the engine, inspect it, and put it back together configured for EMC.
During testing, for instance, we used a belt drive for the camshafts so we could change cam timing on the fly. At EMC, that is not allowed. Chain cam drive only. With the Pontiac design, and the OEM style timing cover, the oil pan also had to be changed.
When he removed the oil pan, he discovered a mess of shrapnel in the pan. Not good!
This was after midnight Saturday.
He discovered that the bottoms had blown out of 12 of the 16 roller lifters, the remains spread all throughout the crankcase.
He spent the next several hours checking bearings and cleaning the engine. He had to install and set new lifters and hope that whatever caused the other lifters (no reason was evident, and there was no time for detective work) didn't happen at EMC.

(The new lifters worked fine. Nothing disintegrated)

Since I had been doing a lot of the packing of the truck he had borrowed to go to Menahga, he periodically called me throughout the night wondering where this or that was. This went on into Sunday.
I spent Sunday getting the last of the beans and tomatos out of the garden.
I expected to hear from him early Monday morning that he was on his way and I should be up in St. Cloud (right on I-94) at such and such time.
I didn't hear from him all morning. Soon it was mid afternoon and still nothing.
I didn't want to call him because I knew that he was just too busy to bother with phone calls.
Finally the phone rang. He was on his way, but never did find the cooling system adapters we need to hook the engine up to the dyno cooling system. Could I run into Litchfield and try to find some plumbing items that we can jerry rig into working.
I did, and I did.
Once I got back home from that mission, it was time to grab my bag and some food for the trip and get in the car, with my wife driving, and we headed for St. Cloud.
It was 4:30 Monday afternoon when we arrived in St. Cloud at a gas station just off I-94.
Throttle took on gas while I loaded my crap into his Tahoe. The engine was in a rented two wheel enclosed trailer along with the tool cart and supplies and parts.
Throttle had brought along a team member who also lives in Fargo. His name is Matt.
Matt had a super-duper cell phone that does GPS, so his job on the trip was to be the navigator.
He had also been driving down from Fargo because Throttle hadn't slept since Friday night to Saturday morning during the dyno testing in Menahga. He didn't feel too safe for driving.
He told me he wanted me to drive from here on because Matt drives way too slow, we'll never get there in time. Remember - we have to be AT the University of Northwestern Ohio BY 10:AM tomorrow morning. And here we are in St. Cloud, MN. at now running on about a quarter to five Monday afternoon.

I know how to do this....
I did this.

We picked up one more team member, Mike, who lives in Menahga and works at Torvinen's. He drove down to Monticello, MN. where we picked him up along the way from St. Cloud.
After that, we were now on high cruise setting.
I drove down through the Twin Cities, through Wisconsin, past Madison, to the Chicago border. Somewhere along the line we stopped again for gas, but kept moving, generally running at just about 80 mph, sometimes slower when traffic didn't permit.
According to Matt and his calculations on where we should be at a given time, we had picked up a good half hour by the time we reached Madison.
Shortly after crossing the Illinois border, we ran into road construction. It's like 2:00 AM and there's road construction going on. The freeway was shut down to single lane each direction. It remained that way until after we passed through Gary, IN. later that morning.
Somewhere in there Mike took over the driving. Since Matt was keeping tune with Throttle in the back seat, we didn't have a navigator. Both guys in the back seat were dead to the world. So I navigated with my DeLorme Street Atlas maps I had printed out before leaving home.
We drove throught he night, and watched the sun come up.
We stopped for gas somwhere after Gary where Throttle took over.
He brought our speed back up (Mike drove faster than Matt, but was scared of cops) Throttle wasn't scared of cops. Like me. I think he learned it from me.
Anyway, he drove the rest of the way to Lima. Uneventful trip, we arrived about 9:15 Tuesday morning. Almost 45 minutes to spare!

Next chapter - The EMC show!
Mark D.
Attachments
SV300068resized.jpg
Here is a photo of the secret squirrel intake before being installed on the engine. Had not yet been tested.
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby tom c » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:44 pm

Interesting tale so far. Want more!

Tom C.
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Lost somewhere in Michigan instead of Colorado!

Mark D
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:20 am

More coming soon. Other things getting in the way of it.
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Mark D
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:22 am

We registered at the desk, went back out and backed the trailer into the staging area where the engine, tool cart and boxes of stuff were unloaded. The trailer was dropped at a place in the huge parking lot where it would be out of the way, the Tahoe was parked near the door so we could escape easily.
We then began getting the engine ready to mount onto the dyno cart. I spent the next hour or so indexing spark plugs. For whatever reason Throttle wanted three sets indexed for 'just in case'.
We knew that new intake manifold would draw some attention, to Throttle had covered it with a combination of a larg black trash bag and a formed fabric device that is wrapped around an oil pan to keep oil hot. It's called a diaper. That was also wrapped around the whole works, bag and intake. It was amusing to see how people from other teams would come by and stoop low to try to look up under the cover, but nothing showed. Everyone was wondering what was going on. A few started talking protest the thing, not even knowing what it is! We laughed.
Now, all parts such as that must be available to anyone for purchase. That is in the rules. Throttle was on his cell phone half the day badgering the guys at Performance Design to get that thing up on their website before the tech inspectors started inspecting our engine. If it's not listed as available, it has to come off the engine. These guys who procrastinate on about everything to do with this project were a bit slow here too.
But sometime late Tuesday afternoon, the intake showed up on their website. All was well.
A word about Performance Design. These guys know their s#!^. Some of what they've done ranges from managing the design of the Cadillac XV16 concept engine to the Cadillac CTS-V World Challenge Championships to OEM pre-production development on GM's LS7, LSA, and LS9 engine platforms.

In other words, these guys are where the designs for the really hot stuff from GM comes from.

The tech inspector came by with a sheet for Throttle to fill out that contained blanks to fill out on just about every part on the engine, including the intake manifold. Throttle noticed that nobody else seemed to have that sheet. He figured they were checking out the intake without having to take the cover off.

Turns out, they were. But the thing was on the website a couple hours before they checked.
Mind you, everyone else is doing the same thing. Use the rules to your advantage. Just like racing, if it doesn't say you can't, you can.

We spent some time watching some of the other contestants performances on the big screens that were up for that purpose. We were scheduled for Wednesday afternoon. Tomorrow, in other words. Sometime around 6 or 7 O'clock we left for the hotel. Throttle had brought several jars of his wife's home made salsa, made from the tomato's she grew in her garden. One of the other teams had brought lots of chips. In the hotel was a large open area with tables and chairs, all stone floors and a fountain in the middle. Nearby was a hotel bar where we got beer and pizza. We lined up several tables and the BS started.
At some point, a guy on one of the teams pulled out a huge clear jar with a screw on lid that you'd use around these parts for canning. It had a liquid inside that was clear as water, but in fact it was genuine Kentucky moonshine. Throttle had wandered off when he saw Tony Bischoff off by himself. The two of them talked for at least an hour. The guys on our team tested the moonshine. I didn't, I don't drink. Never have liked the stuff. Just one of my quirks, I guess.
But they thought it was great.

Next morning our engine was mounted on the dyno cart by the college students while we watched with hawk eyes. I took photo's.
The tech inspector came by and looked the engine over, but didn't make us take the diaper off the intake.
But finally it was time to head to the dyno. Engines had been running all morning, now it was our turn in dyno cell #1.
The bag had to come off. Instantly the whole room paraded past to get a look at that intake. It was truly like nothing they had ever seen before. Some guy actually did try to protest it, but the tech inspector, who is pretty strict actually, said it meets the letter of the rules. For this year anyway. Next year it'll probably be banned.

We rolled the engine into dyno cell #1 and the college boys began hooking it up to the dynamometer, again under our watchful eyes.
These were good guys, and we talked with them easily when they weren't doing stuff with our engine, but it's like letting someone else take your Corvette for a test drive. You're nervous.

Hooked up and ready to go, the dyno operator fired up the engine and the clock started ticking. We had 25 minutes to do whatever we needed to do, but during that time we had to make three good pulls on the dyno that would count for our score.

With the engine warmed up, Throttle gave the operator the go and he ran a pull. The engine seemed to pull strongly, but it's difficult to tell what it's actually doing just by listening. To me, though, it didn't seem the same as up in Menahga. But that could just be my imagination.

When the first pull was over, the graph and the data sheet printed out. Our score looked good, for the moment at least we were going to be easily in first place. But the graph looked bad. The horsepower figures were ok, could be better, but they were affected by what happened with the torque curve. At about 3500 RPM the torque dropped right into the cellar, then climbed back up quickly at around 4300 RPM to where it would have been if it hadn't dropped in the first place. But then at around 4800 RPM to around 5200RPM it dipped downward again, but not as deeply as before. Scott Clark, one of our team and also a foremost expert on fuel injection tuning was there at his computer, connected with the Mega Squirt fuel injection system we were using. He was trying to figure out what could have caused that. It was killing our averages.

Scott, by the way, works on our team and we didn't have to pay the big bucks for his services. OTH, he also worked on tuning the fuel injection systems on several other teams and they had to pay big money to fly him to their shop to tune their engines. Last year this also included Jon Kasse. I think this year he had someone else doing that. But he did a number of engines that ran in this show. He is VERY good at what he does.

But Scott could not fix this because, as it turned out, it wasn't anything to do with the fuel injection.

We ran a second pull and got the same result.
Throttle decided to remove all eight O2 sensors from the headers and run it uncontrolled. This provided a bit better power last year. But he was also begining to realize what the problem was, and we weren't going to be able to fix it.
We ran a third pull and called it a day. Performance went down a hair with the O2 sensors out, but there was no more time to put the sensors back in and run a fourth pull to use as the third good pull.

We were done, and our score was what it was.

The problem?
The new headers! We would have seen it in Menahga if we'd used the mufflers in the exhaust.
Last year, the old headers worked fine. But this year, the headers were of a different design AND of different tube diameter, 1/8" larger diameter.
What we were seeing was a reversion of the exhaust. Somewhat similar, in my view, to what happens with a radio frequency transmitter when coupled to an antenna that is not tuned to the frequency the transmitter is set to. With radio, it's called standing wave ratio. With engines, it's a 'reversion' of the exhaust pulses slaming into pulses that have stalled at the collector because of a backup at the muffler.

Nearly all other engines suffered some reversion just like ours, but none of them were severe. They were all just slight little dips. Ours, the curve dropped right down to the HP curve. I wish I'd taken a photo of the curve so I could show it, but didn't think of it. Was pretty busy actually.

In any case, we were, for the moment, in first place. But we also knew that would change for the simple reason that the 'big boys' run the next day and then the final shootout for the top five happens on Friday.
What we didn't know was how far down we might drop to. That was also out of our hands at this point, so we waited and waited.

Meanwhile, Hotrod magazine came by and wanted to do a photo shoot of the engine for an article to take place sometime during the next year, probably next fall would be my best bet.
So the engine was rolled into the teardown room where we tore it apart for photo's of internals.

Jon Kasse's big bad 'Boss 9' was later wheeled right next to ours. This engine, Kasse's Boss 9, was brought there not to win the main prize, but to just get the peak power and peak torque trophy's. And he got that alright!
This engine began life as a Ford Boss 429. John Kasse has developed a great cylinder head design for this engine block, among other high perf stuff for it. This engine, in Mr. Kasse's shop, was taken out to 599 CID. It also produced an average peak power of 981.67 hp and 863 lb/ft torque.

Now, in the real world these figures aren't all that staggering for that displacement, but being built to the house rules, it is staggering. These engines are actually severely limited by rules of what you cannot do and what you must do. Just like in various classes of racing.
Mr Kasse took 6th place with that engine. He would have done much better, but the score is divided by the displacement. This engine was basically 600 cid!

He had another Boss 9 (as he calls his own Boss 429's) that finished 5th. This one was a 404 inch engine and pulled 666 hp at 591.67 lb/ft torque.

This year, the first place finisher was Tony Bischoff. BES Racing Engines. Tony used a 401 CID Gen III Mopar Hemi. Average peak power was 688.67 hp and 611.67 lb/ft torque.

Our engine was good on power, but couldn't match that. It would have were it not for the exhaust reversion. Oh well, it is what it is.
With a 429 CID Pontiac engine, we did 685 average peak hp and 596.33 lb/ft torque.

Now, notice how close those performance figures are. We wound up in 10th place with our figures, mainly because of our larger displacement. But that was the displaement that the calculations told Throttle he had to use to get the most effect from the cylinder heads and their chambers.

In the end, all the engines in the top 15 or so were extremely close in power and torque figures. It's almost like watching a real car race. The winner is seldom three laps ahead of the rest of the bunch. It's usually a whole bunch of cars within feet of each other, often inches, passing the checkered flag often during the same second.
That's how close it was in this case.

Well, we cleaned up one head chamber for photo's, one piston (still in the engine) for photo's, disassembled the intake manifold for photo's, and then screwed it all back together again just for the transport home.
Throttle and I both agree that this Pontiac engine, having been to EMC twice now, has probably run its course there. There isn't much, if any, more to get out of it. It's a 1960's design competing with the latest engine technology out there. it does well, but by next year I don't think it'll be able to make even the top ten.
And we'd prefer to make the top 1.

We packed up and went home, another marathon drive straight through. My wife picked me up in St. Cloud around 4:30 AM the next morning.

But there's more!
The time in the teardown room was quite interesting.
I took photo's, and below I will show them. There will be a number of posts since the limit is 3 per post. I won't likely get them all in right now, but they'll show up over the next few days. '
Comments are fine during that time though. The photo's will just be spread out.

I'll add descriptions of what the photo is about, of course.
Mark D.
Attachments
SV300063resized.jpg
I wanted to show the size of the throttle body that was used on the secret intake manifold, but didn't have a tape measure handy. So I just spread my left hand across it to give an idea. It's about 6.5 inches in diameter.
SV300063resized.jpg (100 KiB) Viewed 3609 times
10411111_10153223989628032_3219649600322076968_n.jpg
A shot showing the tech inspector inspecting the engine. Throttle is to his left. The commentator is the guy grinning in the background. he's a really humorous guy with real racing experience too. the others are people from another team and the guys behind Throttle are students.
SV300047.JPG
This is one of the intake manifolds we tested on the engine. It looks great, but didn't do very well at all. That's why we test stuff.
SV300047.JPG (38.41 KiB) Viewed 3609 times
Mark D. - The bottom of the information curve

Mark D
Conductor
Posts: 3181
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:01 pm
Location: Sort of between Litchfield and Forest City, MN.

Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:44 am

Here are some more shots. The best is yet to come though

I'm not getting these photo's into any particular order, just putting them in as I find them. Still, the later ones will still pretty much be later on in the whole story, so the teardown ones will be later than the competition ones which are later than the Menahga ones.
I don't want to spend a whole week at this.
Mark D.
Attachments
SV300100.JPG
People looking at the intake now that the wraps are off.
SV300100.JPG (76.17 KiB) Viewed 3609 times
SV300084.JPG
The college boys starting to set the engine up on the dyno cart. Mike, one of our team is on the left, and I'm behind the camera, safely out of the picture. Notice the diaper covering the trash bag that covers the intake.
SV300077resized.jpg
Here's what our power and torque curves looked like in Menahga. It was similar in Lima, but put some huge dips in the torque curve, the upper line, that go all the way down to the horsepower curve. You are looking at both the most recent pull and the one before where the lines are a bit more faint. Blurry photo is due to photographer. You can see that there was a gain in power between the last pull and the current one. You can also see some reversion in the torque curve, but it's minimal. Wasn't like that at all once we got to Lima.
Mark D. - The bottom of the information curve

Mark D
Conductor
Posts: 3181
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:01 pm
Location: Sort of between Litchfield and Forest City, MN.

Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby Mark D » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:57 am

One more batch of three and that's it for tonight.
Not sure yet what I'll find to stick in this batch.
Attachments
SV300095.JPG
Another engine from another team. A big block Chebby. It didn't place well, but I don't know at this time where it actually placed. Below us, I know that. But a pretty engine, and it still made a lot of power. Maybe as much as or more than the Pontiac, but if he had more displacement, that would kill him.
SV300095.JPG (37.15 KiB) Viewed 3608 times
SV300106.JPG
The engine all set up on the dyno. Ready for the first pull.
SV300106.JPG (81.03 KiB) Viewed 3608 times
SV300098.JPG
The engine, all ready to head to the dyno cell. That's Matt, from Fargo, digging in the tool cart for something. One of the team. Good guy.
SV300098.JPG (37.08 KiB) Viewed 3608 times
Mark D. - The bottom of the information curve

tom c
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Posts: 325
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Re: Anyone Heard of the Amzoil Engine Masters Challenge?

Postby tom c » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:55 am

Interesting Mark, thanks for the update.

Tom C.
tom_at_srclry_com
Lost somewhere in Michigan instead of Colorado!


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